If Cyan doesn't release tools but still want to help..

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If Cyan doesn't release tools but still want to help..

Postby Aloys » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:42 pm

As I was reading another post mentionning how 'Cyan would release tools in the futre', I realized how it seems more and more likely that they will not (although I'd love to be proven wrong). So, assuming they won't, and assuming they want to help the Age creation effort in a different way.. Several times it's been mentionned how they should release 'documentation' about the various PRPs objects and such.. What *exactly* would be needed to help development of PyPRP, and custom Ages as a whole? (assuming it doens't mean actual development time on their part)

If tomorrow they came and asked how could they help further our tools ; what would you answer?

Alternatively, what else than documention could they provide that would help? (Actual source code, technical Q&A sessions with them, or whatever else I can't think of)

I'm asking this only out of curiosity, no conspiracy theory here. But as time goes it seems more and more likely that they won't release tools; and in a way it's probably a good decision seing how Blender is free vs Max, etc etc.. But if they want to make custom Ages in Live a great thing it is also in their best interest to help us in some way, to the extent of their possibilities.

Practically speaking, how could they help?
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Re: If Cyan doesn't release tools but still want to help..

Postby Paradox » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:48 pm

Ideally source code, sine I'm betting that Cyan doesn't have anything officially documented other than in the code.
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Re: If Cyan doesn't release tools but still want to help..

Postby Aloys » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:23 pm

Haha.. That might be a good point. But what kind of source code? Since their exporter is tailored for Max, and not written in Python how useful would it be? How long would you spend parsing it before getting actually useful stuff out of it?
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Re: If Cyan doesn't release tools but still want to help..

Postby Paradox » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:30 pm

All of Cyan's Plasma source code is in C++. The same back-end code is used for the servers, the client, and the 3DSMax toolset.

However, in releasing that source, Cyan would have essentially just made Plasma an open-source engine :(
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Re: If Cyan doesn't release tools but still want to help..

Postby BAD » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:07 pm

I doubt they will do that.

However, they could have those who are interested in creating age building software sign NDAs and only allow them to see the source code. I know it doesn't sound fair, that only a select few get this opportunity, but seeing this from Cyan's perspective, this would be the best way.
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Re: If Cyan doesn't release tools but still want to help..

Postby Trylon » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:42 pm

Agreed.
One day I ran through the cleft for the fiftieth time, and found that uru held no peace for me anymore.
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Re: If Cyan doesn't release tools but still want to help..

Postby JulyForToday » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:55 pm

I also agree. I don't see why it would be necessary for everyone in the community to have access to the source code anyways. There is a relatively small group of programmers who have been making the major serious contributions to the advancement of PyPRP. I don't think anyone would mind if those same people got to poke around the source, while the rest of us would just be content to use the new capabilities provided by their efforts so we can further get on with building ages, since the majority of the people here aren't into the hard-core coding stuff anyways.

Another thing I would really like to see is some way for us to make additions, fixes, or suggestions to improve the plasma engine and the game code. RIUM+ in Cyan Chat said he actually managed to get HDR to work with Uru. (don't ask me how..) I think that the potential for fans to expand the abilities of plasma is too great to ignore, but it has to be properly managed so that things don't get messy.

Edit: And yes, RIUM+ did mess up his video card in the process of doing that.. point is, we can do some neat things and maybe make plasma better with contributions...
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Re: If Cyan doesn't release tools but still want to help..

Postby Chacal » Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:46 pm

Cyan releasing the source code for tool developers under a NDA would be no different that what several game producers have been doing in the past. It is a proven business model. It would actually be a lot more than what several developers got. I've been working with the guy who wrote bf2ccd, an admin tool for BF2 servers, under contract from EA. He had NO HELP from BF2 developers.
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