What can't we make?

[GPNMilano]

First, a few things.

Thanks Andy, I knew about the sound stuff from that same post.

Lontahv: I agree whole heartedly with what you're saying. Cyan and Turner are currently in negotiations for the rights to MOUL, so that Cyan can start UU back up again, and any bounds we step over could hurt those negotiations, hence why I posted my question about bounds and what we can and cannot do.

Chacal, I agree with you as well. For the past two years i've been building city buildings and such to include in my personal copy of Uru, using their materials and sounds, but I won't distribute them because its mostly for my own personal use. That and distributing them would be unethical to me. Cyan created the city, Cyan knows where stuff in the city goes, potentially what the city looks like when its finished. My own creations are not Cyan's interpretation of the city but my own, which is why I keep them to myself. I don't want others seeing distributed city portions and other Cyan like ages and thinking their Cyan's. So I keep them on my harddrive, for my personal use, and if someday Cyan releases more pods, or the guildhall, ore a full uru Myst Island, then I'll remove mine and put in theirs.

Edit: spelling.

[Lontahv]

BobLishman, my SuitUp age is a line of python code, nothing more. It contains nothing that belongs to cyan except the name of some of the Python API defs. That age is about as "stealing cyan's stuff" as any age with a .pak. It's unlocking rather than copying. The suit is a feature, and rather, the body-parts of the suit are features, all my age does is clothe you in pre-made clothing (made by cyan) using simple python code.

It's the same principle as fly-mode.

Sorry for the confusion.

~Lontahv

[boblishman]

yes...I realise that ... it was your comment "....When I go to a fan-age I expect something new, not just pieced together Cyan stuff..." ... that confused me ... isn't that what Suit Age is? (it gives you an existing piece of Cyan stuff )

errr... and who said that anyone was " ... stealing Cyan's stuff ... " ...

[Lontahv]

Well, I guess I am rather attacking my self.

Using the python API is in essence reusing Cyan's stuff.

What I was trying to get at is people using a bird-chirp from Delin, or a cloth-gong from Tsogal in their age (not saying anyone is).

Oh I just thought of why having clothing-changing and avatar-anims etc is not as bad as reusing parts of their ages. The avatar and its settings, anims, etc. are part of the engine rather than something they made for it.

I hope this makes it even more clear what I tried to say and fail to 8 posts back.

~Lontahv

[andylegate]

Well the other thing you have to consider Lontahv is:

A) Cyan DID give a nod to use it (meaning point to it, not distribute it, just like you point to the Maintainer Suit)

B) Ease of Use: Not everyone out there is a audio master, a musical composer. True, it would be great if we could have more stuff from our sound people here, and I'm sure if we put out more requests we might see more of that. I myself have used music that is actually composed by someone else.
But at the same time.....running water, is running water. Why go through all the trouble of finding a burbling creek and try to make a good recording with a digital sound recorder (that you just might drop in the creek), when it's already been done for you. All one has to do is point the ALCscript to it. I mean, are my crickets around my house going to sound different than the crickets you hear in Er'cana? Maybe, but enough to tell?
I'm sure that as more people create more Ages, there will be more need for different sound FX that are not even in Uru. But for now, it also makes it easier in one other way:

C) you don't have to upload a bunch of sound files.

Now the music......yah.....people should really try to get some of their own, and that's where the GoW's musicians could really kick in. Still at least for learing purposes, I don't see the harm in a new writer using like the background music from let's say the Library to just give their Age some music for the first time. As long as they don't send the file, but point to it.

[boblishman]

... The avatar and its settings, anims, etc. are part of the engine rather than something they made for it.

errr... so... Cyan didn't make the maintainers suit texture ? ... or the specific puzzle animations ???

[Lontahv]

Yeah, but it's avatar clothing. Avatar clothing (in my eyes) is a true built-in. We (at least now) can't make any clothing we want. We are not taking the clothing, only enabling it. With the sounds, we would be encoding our Prps with it. We would be building stuff with Cyan's stuff. So, if all the ages were removed, or you wanted to have this age in a different game-engine, it would be impossible.

Ah, this is such a deep philosophical discussion.

The GoW is full of paradoxes, and "Paradox".
My brain is full of GoW paradoxes as well.


~Lontahv

[Erik]

D'ni Ages are also off limits. So you can't write a Linking Book to an Age that was used by the D'ni. Always remember that you are the first one to write a link to the Age you're working on. There are no two descriptive books to the same Age, so you are the first to link into the Age. The only people that could be or could have been in your Age are natives.

[boblishman]

...With the sounds, we would be encoding our Prps with it ..

errr... ... but that's the point ... we dont ... we simply "enable" the sound files in the same way that you "enable" the clothing ... (it does explain this several posts back) ... sound files are not encoded within our prp's ...

[Chacal]

D'ni Ages are also off limits. So you can't write a Linking Book to an Age that was used by the D'ni. Always remember that you are the first one to write a link to the Age you're working on. There are no two descriptive books to the same Age, so you are the first to link into the Age. The only people that could be or could have been in your Age are natives.

That I disagree with as well. You can do both, it is just much easier to do a new Age.

Linking to a D'ni Age means you have to do a lot of research to ensure you don't break continuity.

The D'ni culture is an essential part of the whole concept of Ages.

If everyone only makes new Ages that don't refer to D'ni, we will not have Uru, we will have a disparate collection of unrelated work.

It is essential that all Ages have a connection (either a story line, or visuals, or journals, artefacts, etc.) to the rest of Uru.