Future Fan-based ONLINE Possibilities--what are they?

[Carl Palmner]

My apologies for repeating this topic, as I am sure it must have come up before. I have browsed these forums a bit trying to find it and have been unable to, however, so I thought I'd go ahead and just start a new thread asking about it. If I'm repeating what someone else has already said or asked very recently, I'm sorry.

Today I've been installing and playing all of the fan-made Ages and I have to say how impressed I am. Some of this stuff is just as high-quality as the Ages we had in MO:UL. Then, too, I've been thinking a lot about the fact that someone managed to create a tool for making the MO:UL content available offline. All of this got me thinking about a topic as intriguing as it is controversial--the possibility of a future fan-run online Uru, which incorporates fan-made Ages as well.

I'm sure the few of us who haven't already thought about this can see the appeal right away. Although the official canonized storyline would still be absent, if it's possible to create an "Until Uru"-esque fan-made Uru Online that incorporates (a) all the Uru CC content, (b) all the MO:UL content and (c) all the fan-made content, past and future--what we'd basically have is...well, ALL of Uru in one gigantic package, the ability to play it with friends, and best of all, the core of Rand Miller's original dream--a continual flow of new content. Basically it would be the Uru Live dream, minus the ongoing official story (and remember, we'd still have fan stories).

Rand's recent statements regarding Cyan's hope to get the rights back and turn everything they can over to the fans gives me hope that this dream is a possibility, so here's my question:

How far are we from actually being able to do it?

I don't mean the legal stuff, because that's something we can't control as fans, and have to have faith in Cyan for. I mean our actual capability. Surely some folks who are good with this kind of thing could look at the "Until Uru" patch, the Uru CC programming, the ULM programming, and figure out a way to put it all together into an "Until Uru" that incorporates all of the content as well as allowing for new Ages through ULM or a similar tool?

What I want to know is: Has anyone started working on that? How close are we to being physically capable of making everything we've got MULTIPLAYER again?

If Cyan is successful in securing all of the rights and hands it over to the fans as we all hope they will, I think it would be great if we were already prepared. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the day Cyan said, "Go to it, guys, you can legally do this!" was the same day that the fans put "Uru Live 3" (or whatever you want to call it) online?

[GPNMilano]

Carl,

I think that all depends on your definition of the word close. I could be wrong, I'm not a dev, so one of them, if they're reading this please correct me. The PyPRP, was written so that it could export to Uru AMB, Uru CC and UU. The ULM I believe is only programmed to make ages available in offline versions of Uru. Hence why you couldn't use it to download an age onto MOUL. In order to set it up as you suggested, the ULM would have to be reprogrammed based on the server code. And possibly the server itself would have to be configured to recognize the ULM. Again, I don't know, I'm not a dev, I'm just basing it on what I know so far. The problem with this, from what I understand, is that there is no server running at the moment to begin programming. That would be up to a dev to make their own server, for their own use, in order to get this set up. Another problem would be we don't know which version of Uru would return. If the server code will be based on Until Uru. Or on MOUL.

So there are a number of hoops to jump through to get it going. Also the ages themselves, would have to be retooled for a multiplayer enviornment. But I believe that would be more on the age creators shoulders than the devs.

Chloe

[Trylon]

ULM is just a content delivery system. (Okay, with one minor part being the interface with uru)
As such it's been able to deliver content to Uru:CC as well as Until Uru and Alcugs installs, the last one even without any programming changes.
The next installment of ULM will be a bit more game-modifying than the previous version was, as that is neccesary to support linking panels, and some other fancy tricks I'm not going to talk about, 'cause they ,might not work. But once done, it will be relatively easy to modify.

As for PyPrp and Blender:
Yes, pyprp will need to be modified, but not too much, and we basically know how to do that.
It will take some time ofcourse.

[GPNMilano]

Thanks Trylon. I wasn't sure if you guys had already programmed ULM to work with a live version of Uru. So I asummed it would still have to be retooled. PyPRP on the other hand I assumed already was programmed to work with one version of a live Uru, that being UU, cause it could import those ages already.

[D'Lanor]

If there are any underground UU or alcugs shards around I am sure they are not going to reveal themselves.

Any age that works offline should work fine online on an alcugs shard though.

PyPRP also supports exports in UU/ABM/To D'ni format. However, I have recently found out that user ages with avatar shadows enabled will crash on Uru ABM and To D'ni. So I guess our UU compatibility went down the drain.

[Sophia]

Hopefully, WHEN Cyan can, they will reveal their future format, and we can start developing whatever we develop for that particular format and convert what has been done so far. Until then, I am afraid we may have to stick to Uru CC... but from way back when I sort of got the impression the two formats (CC and UU) are not THAT different, and to use a really "verboten" subject: I know for a fact that MOUL ages have been known to make work in CC, so why can't they be converted to yet another format

I am not a programmer, but I have used clever tools created by SMART people and I have been able to convert some things... if I can do that, I am convinced others can do BETTER. I think what we are all eagerly awaiting is the WORD from Cyan... just one word...

[Carl Palmner]

Interesting. Here's what I'm getting so far (correct me if I have misinterpreted you guys): ULM needs very little modifying to work with a UU-style program. Since the mod to make the MO:UL Ages available in Uru CC has already been made, that hurdle is finished as well. Back when UU was still the only online Uru we had, fans had already managed to mod it enough to bring in the PotS content. So, (again, correct me if I'm wrong), it looks to me like what's missing is simply for someone to get a server up and running and modify the old UU patch (or modify one of the already heavily modded ones) so that it could be used without the whole weird KAGI-key thing. Theoretically, a modded UU patch should be able to allow us to use all the content we have access to (including the MOUL Ages) in a multiplayer setting, right? I mean, it's already possible to play all of the Ages in the Uru CC engine. We just need to make it multiplayer, and modding the UU patch and coming up with a server would do that, yes?

Let me know if I have misunderstood. It seems to me that if I have understood all this correctly, we are a lot closer than I thought--especially since Cyan already (I think) owns the rights to the Uru CC engine and those Ages. What we'd be waiting for to actually make it available would just be Cyan to get the rights to the MOUL Ages and to give us the go-word.

In the meantime, is anyone working on modding the old UU programming?

[Chacal]

Yes we have already explored this, and yes it would be possible to start an Alcugs server with converted MOUL content. I could start a server tomorrow.

However we would still be stuck with the old Plasma engine and all the UU bugs. It would also ruin any chances of a satisfactory settlement between Cyan and GameTap.

It would be preferable to get the new (MOUL) version from Cyan. Also some people have suggested adopting a new engine entirely.

This is why we're waiting for news from Cyan. Also we still need lots of time to complete the tools and learn to write Ages.
Note: I'm using "we" for GoW, personally I haven't even started.

[Carl Palmner]

Yes we have already explored this, and yes it would be possible to start an Alcugs server with converted MOUL content. I could start a server tomorrow.

Wow, I still didn't realize we were that close. So the only thing in the way of actually doing this is the legal stuff and Cyan's chances of getting the rights back from Gametap. Interesting.

Personally I wouldn't mind using the old engine so much. It's true that the newer one used in MO:UL loaded up faster and had fewer bugs, but Until Uru was certainly workable. I was only on D'mala but from what I heard, fans had modded some of the other shards enough that the major issues and problems were mostly resolved. Seems to me the same thing could happen here, just using the old engine.

Of course, either way, we still have to wait for the "go" from Cyan .

[Sophia]

Yes, we are patiently waiting for the Go, or even the "Go in that direction" Until then, we can't do a single thing, we would NEVER want to undermine any possible comeback of an online Uru, the way that would benefit Cyan (and ultimately, us). All we can do is wait... well, apart from doing our bit to make such a future possible

Oh, just for the record: I am speaking for Mur and myself, "we" in this case is not Guild of Writers or any other group!