3DS Max

[GPNMilano]

All of that is in the distant future... For Cyan to release the plugin, they have to drop a few files into a .zip file and pass it out. It seems that they aren't capable of doing that...

"I'll believe it when I see it" is my current view towards the tools and MORE.

(Speculation ahead)

Paradox, let me paint you a picture. Imagine that the moment they released the Roadmap for MORE they had dropped the tools at your feet. Now you open those tools up, and lo and behold you find you can import MOUL ages into 3DSMax (Much like we can/used to with PyPRP) But it just doesn't stop with Uru ages, the plugin covers RealMyst, Myst V, all versions of Uru. Do you see the ramifications of that? Now the very real threat of someone going ahead and importing say, the full shaft from Descent, or Myst Island from RealMyst and Myst V, and porting them to Uru CC flawlessly, becomes a very real possibility.

I imagine that many functions (compatibility with Myst V and Realmyst being the top ones) have to be disabled from the plugin before it can be released. This takes work, and isn't as easy as "dropping a few files". The plugin exists, but realistically they can't release the entire thing without modifications to ensure their IP regarding non URU Games.

[Paradox]

The tools only work with MOUL.

Cyan has a separate toolset for Pots, separate toolset for Myst V, and separate toolset for Hex Isle. I don't think they even have the Plasma 1 (realMyst) toolset anymore.

As well, I'm 90% sure that their plugin does not support importing. It's export only.

[Grogyan]

The tools only work with MOUL.

Cyan has a separate toolset for Pots, separate toolset for Myst V, and separate toolset for Hex Isle. I don't think they even have the Plasma 1 (realMyst) toolset anymore.

As well, I'm 90% sure that their plugin does not support importing. It's export only.

Yup this is true, though they had the 3ds max file to import meshes, textures, uv maps much like the append function in Blender, to port over places like Ahnonay and K'Veer

[Nadnerb]

Indeed. They're the content creators. They have no need to import anything because anything in a prp file starts out as a max file, which they made themselves, and thus, already have.

The only reason the tools we use can import/read files at all is that some are more prp editors than prp creators, (prpExplorer, prpTool) because it's the easiest way to check that the object structure is correct when initially starting a tool, (pyPrp) and of course, there's always the irresistible urge to see Cyan content in environments they didn't intend.

[Paradox]

Indeed. They're the content creators. They have no need to import anything because anything in a prp file starts out as a max file, which they made themselves, and thus, already have.

The only reason the tools we use can import/read files at all is that some are more prp editors than prp creators, (prpExplorer, prpTool) because it's the easiest way to check that the object structure is correct when initially starting a tool, (pyPrp) and of course, there's always the irresistible urge to see Cyan content in environments they didn't intend.

Not to mention that looking at Cyan's files is usually the best way to figure out how to make something work

[Chacal]

<off-topic>
Paradox, you came to Quebec City? Should have dropped me a word, I'd have paid you a beer or two (assuming we could get rid of your folks).
When you arrived at the train station, I was just above your head in this horrible place. Spent the whole month of July there, 16 hours a day.
</off-topic>

[GPNMilano]

Sorry, i'm holding to my opinion that the toolset Cyan uses encompasses both Myst V, MOUL, and POTS. (RealMyst I'm on the fence on, the library used in MOUL and POTS may simply have been a retrofitted imported mesh from their max files for the RealMyst version) But there are two few differences in the plasma engines for Myst V, MOUL, and POTS for me to believe they created 3 seperate toolsets to govern three very similiar plasma engines. Especially MOUL and POTS considering that the differences in their Plasma's was so minute that its still debated wether or not they even should be denoted as separate versions of Plasma. I don't find it likely that a corporation would create three separate toolsets to govern create content for game engines, whose differences are so little. Its much more believable to me that they simply made improvements to the toolset to govern new export features for the toolset to export to the different plasma engines, than create one entirely new toolset for each game.

[Paradox]

Sorry, i'm holding to my opinion that the toolset Cyan uses encompasses both Myst V, MOUL, and POTS. (RealMyst I'm on the fence on, the library used in MOUL and POTS may simply have been a retrofitted imported mesh from their max files for the RealMyst version) But there are two few differences in the plasma engines for Myst V, MOUL, and POTS for me to believe they created 3 seperate toolsets to govern three very similiar plasma engines. Especially MOUL and POTS considering that the differences in their Plasma's was so minute that its still debated wether or not they even should be denoted as separate versions of Plasma. I don't find it likely that a corporation would create three separate toolsets to govern create content for game engines, whose differences are so little. Its much more believable to me that they simply made improvements to the toolset to govern new export features for the toolset to export to the different plasma engines, than create one entirely new toolset for each game.

Well, there are currently two versions of Plasma in Cyan's repository. 2.0 is used for MOUL, and 3.0 is used for Hex Isle.

2.0.0 was Uru: Age Beyond Myst with the Havok Physics engine.
2.0.1 was MOUL with the PhysX Physics engine and improved shaders.
2.1 was Myst V using the ODE Physics engine and full shaders.
3.0 was Hex Isle using the ODE Physics engine with full shaders and bloom lighting.

None of these are compatible. The file formats and object identifiers are different for each version. Each version is entirely separate, building upon code from previous versions, but with enough changes that it is something entirely new. The major difference is the Physics engine. There is no way to convert from one physics engine to another without loosing some precision.
Each version has its own plugin for 3DS Max as well. The plugin needs to match the physics engine, class ids, and file format. The toolsets all share a lot of the same code, but there are minor details that make them all specific to a certain version.

Imagine that we have tools from MOUL, and everything is working perfectly. If Cyan adds 1 byte to the header of every object, and makes that byte a unique ID for each object type, all of the tools need to be revised and rewritten to include that byte.
But, by including that byte, the files are no longer valid for MOUL.

realMyst's engine is not at all related to Uru's engine. Plasma 1 and Plasma 2 share only one thing in common: the name.

[Nadnerb]

a) similar does not equal compatible, quite the opposite.
b) they don't need to create new tools from the ground up each time, just change things and add features enough to make them incompatible
c) You seem to be operating under the assumption that Paradox's assertions are his "opinion", as yours are. Paradox has had direct contact with present and former Cyan employees, who have told him things about their history. Most of his statements are based on facts gleaned from these exchanges, as well as a great deal of time spent staring into the inner workings of various versions of Plasma.

[GPNMilano]

This is the problem I have with how you describe it: When you look at converted MOUL ages next to non-converted, they are nearly identical with the exception of the physics engine. I've looked as deep as the hex-files for the objects, and they are identical in comparison to non-converted and converted with one major exception, the physics engine and the animations. And the animations themselves are the only difference. Their modifiers etc are all identical, the hex for them that is. If what you say is true, then converting MOUL to POTS would thus change the hex of the files as well, but it doesn't, it remains the same in both unconverted and converted ages with the exception of the aforementioned physics/animations. And those are only object animations. The avatar animations such as the oneshotsmods and the multistagebehmods are identical in format for POTS and MOUL.