DLC - D'ni Location (Creation) Contest

[Whilyam]

Could the rules be changed to fit those criteria, Kaelis? It's so early no material would really be impacted. I know those are the "guidelines" I follow (it's not a hard and fast rule, I usually just make stuff myself).

Thank you for the explanation. This needed to be explained earlier. You alone are at fault for the derailments of the topic and people's initial assumptions on your reasons for leaving. I'm glad this was outlined and hope the contest can be quickly changed to allow you to enter, but it is dishonest for you to criticize others for making initial assumptions when you chose the route of dramatic, terse proclamation over an explanation of grievances.

[kaelisebonrai]

Except neither A, nor B, are necessary. =P

Creativity is also being judged here. =P

I fail to see how, as you've demonstrated rather well, with the screenshots of dorehn(sp?), and the age of chloe's hood office, how *you* of all people, would be /required/ to do either A or B, to succeed. If these two break your rules, then, perhaps, but as they are your own, I don't see how that would be the case. =P

I say that neither is required, especially not by you.

EDIT: Alright, I can update the rules to reflect this.

EDIT2: Rules updated.

(See first post)

[Tweek]

How does this break a rule you've set for yourself, more specifically... what /is/ that rule?

"canon" is a wide, vague concept, and it is for that specific REASON, I chose that wording, rather than "follow RAWA's guidelines".

I can change the wording, further to "please try and stick to the setting of D'ni", if it would please you?

I don't understand how it would break any rules, however, if you were to explain, it would be more pleasant, than effectively boycotting the contest. =P Especially when you said you have "clarified my stance on more than one occasion", which has ALWAYS, been about the use of Cyan content, not any other apparent "rule" you have set yourself, which anything being allowed in the contest, as long as it /respects/ canon, apparently disrupts. O_o

My own personal rules that I adhere to when using Cyan's content are thus Again these are only my rules. In the past when someone uses Cyan's content in a way that violates that way I believe it should be used, I have spoken up in the hopes that others would look at my rules and see the value in them. There have also been a time or two when someone violates not this rule but a even greater rule of the form in which they distribute Cyan's content (IE distribution externally from the Plasma engine that becomes freely available to ANYONE rather than between two individuals or a small group)

The rules that are in violation are this:

1. I use Cyan's artwork (It's textures) when it falls to certain staples of D'ni (cavern rock, bannisters etc) and when the textures are part of a staple of D'ni.
2. I use Cyan's models ONLY when those models are a staple of D'ni. Imagers. Linking Books. Nexus pedestals Book pedestals etc. Basically if the model has been used in more than two distinct areas In D'ni it becomes a staple of D'ni life. It's like a lamp post on a street corner. Most of them will look the same regardless of what city you go to.

The rule of "Cyan Content: Allowed. Do whatever the pants you want, just respect canon." is in direction violation of rules 1 and 2 because of "do whatever the pants you want". Others in the contest will go beyond the two rules I set for myself in regards to using Cyan's content. That's okay with me. To each is own. I don't expect anyone to follow the same rules I do. However the ethical dilemma then for me becomes this. In order to win, and I would want to win, I'd have to either (A). Level the playing field by breaking my own rule and go with the contests rule. Thus causing a moral problem and being hypocritical of myself. Or (B) Go above and beyond my self, work really REALLY hard and create something truly breathtaking.

I will not do (A), and (B) introduces the problem of if I lose the contest I'd be really disappointed and consistently be nagged by the doubt that if I had done (A) I probably would have won. Since I don't wish to suffer the moral dilemma nor the internal struggle I will inevitably face the only solution IMO is not to participate and simply enjoy this as a spectator. Perhaps down the road I will decide to start my own contest that uses my rules. That's all.

Ok, I apply those 2 rules to myself as well, I have high standards when it comes to canonicity, standards that few would probably live up to. However, I don't believe "Cyan Content: Allowed. Do whatever the pants you want, just respect canon." goes against those rules, as it says respect canon, your rules are about respecting canon, canon isn't just story, it's aesthetics, culture and atmosphere of the 'verse too.

If others go beyond that I personally don't care, as you said it's their choice to do so, I plan on sticking to my rules of canonicity, but then I'm not hugely interested in winning, I see this more as an exercise in building stuff and trying new things.

But as I said, I don't really see a difference between your rules and the "respect canon". I took the "do whatever" thing to mean any location not specifically hoods or something.

[GPNMilano]

Thanks Kaelis. I didn't want you to have to change your contest just to suit me. It's why I withdrew and just stated it was a personal belief. But I do appreciate you listening to my problem, again this wasn't about anything other than a personal issue I had internally and not with anyone or the contest in general.

Tweek, I took the previous rule as "Do whatever you want" being you can use anything in any way. The canon to me is just the history and story of D'ni and doesn't reflect anything other than D'ni and the Myst universe's history. That's just how I see canon. I view them as two separate entities. Perhaps if I didn't this wouldn't come up, but it's just a personal thing.

Whilyam is right in that I should have explain with my second post in response to Aloys. But I didn't want a page of arguments back and forth and thought a simple "It's just a personal view I have. So i'm withdrawing" was enough. Maybe I should have posted a link to the previous times I've argued about what I, in my view of what we call modding/creation should be used. Under the part of "I've clarified my stance on this before" I didn't. Sorry. Since all of us discussed this before on more than one occasion I just thought people would get that. I made an assumption myself and I apologize for doing so.

EDIT:
Clarification so that this doesn't continue to derail topic. I took the original rule as this:

Cyan Content: Allowed. Do whatever the pants you want. Just respect canon. In this way.

"Cyan Content": (Artwork/Story) it encompasses both.

"Do whatever the pants you want": Use anything. There are no rules when it comes to artwork.

"Just respect canon": Just respect the story as it pertains to D'ni history. IE Don't put a neon sign atop of Kerath's arch.

[Aloys]

I understand and agree with those rules you choose Chloe; I sort of follow the same ones. Although in regard to this contest I think these shouldn't put you at an unfair advantage. An Age might look better if it includes a bunch of Cyan content, but that gives it less merits to win IMO; we judge the original work not the ability the use someone else's content. For instance when you posted the first screenshots of your hood I thought it looked really nice because of the Cyan textures, but as I looked further I saw that it also had a nice layout design and some good modelling which is what I would have focused on in a contest.
Also, in my opinion those contests we organise arent so much about 'winning', but rather an occasion to new complete Ages produced and push people to work and learn new things together. And regardless whether you participate in the contest or not I certainly hope that you'll make some progress on Dorehn.

[andylegate]

2 questions:

1) Can the entry be something we've already been working on? Or does it need to be something that we start making at the beginning of the contest?

2) When you say "Hood Sized" or smaller, I assume that you mean the exploratory size of the Hoods (IE where you can normally walk around in), correct? (I ask because the Hoods have a HUGE shell around them along with a HUGE plane for the lake water).

[tachzusamm]

2) When you say "Hood Sized" or smaller, I assume that you mean the exploratory size of the Hoods (IE where you can normally walk around in), correct? (I ask because the Hoods have a HUGE shell around them along with a HUGE plane for the lake water).

Good point to clarify; but in my opinion it was indeed meant in the first place as you already assumed.

By the way, I'm not going to attend; I would love to, but I fear I will not find enough time to begin a second age (and still learning and trying to get my first age nice and running. Unfortunatelly I started doing it huge; may be stupid, but I love huge areas).

Looking curiuos forward to what participants may create though - this is a really interesting contest.

@Chloe: I don't want to start further discussions again, just wanna say this: I felt a bit sad when reading you're not going to attend any longer.
Maybe because I did not understand why in the first place; thank you for giving more explanation about the reasons.

Sidenote: Sometimes it's a bit difficult to understand controversial threads the right way, when you are not a native speaker. Because I may miss the fine differences in language, or to decide between seriousness or joking, and to distinguish between just "strong" words (to clarify the intent) and "harsh" words. This I do not mention to change anyone's behavior, but that's why I mostly keep myself away from discussions which are not technical. But this is only my personal issue (issue?) (problem?) I assume.


(Oh, and I'm not referring to this thread - had to read it very carefully, and got the impression finally than noone felt offended in fact - but it took a while.)

Peace.

[Aloys]

still learning and trying to get my first age nice and running. Unfortunatelly I started doing it huge; may be stupid, but I love huge areas).

Yeah, other people have done that mistake too.. *cough*me*cough*

[kaelisebonrai]

2 questions:

1) Can the entry be something we've already been working on? Or does it need to be something that we start making at the beginning of the contest?

2) When you say "Hood Sized" or smaller, I assume that you mean the exploratory size of the Hoods (IE where you can normally walk around in), correct? (I ask because the Hoods have a HUGE shell around them along with a HUGE plane for the lake water).

1) Entry can be something you've already been working on, yes.

2) As for "hood sized" the rule is noted as "explorable size" not "size", specifically for this reason. so, yes.. the size of the age you can walk around in, is the size of the hoods you can walk around in, or smaller. =)

EDIT: Note, for 2), the size of the age mesh, does not need to be limited to the size of the hood's exporable area, things you cannot get to, for example, like the hood's lake, and cavern walls, etc... are not included in this "Explorable" size limit. =)

EDIT2: Note, for 1), I'd appreciate it if a decent amount of work was done during the contest, however. =)

[andylegate]

kk, thanks for the clarification. I was thinking of what I'm currently working on, but then I'm close to releasing it here in a week or so:



So I don't think I'll use it.

But I do have a couple of other projects that I've started but need a lot more work before they are ready (in cavern locations). So I might use one of them.