How to enable the Gahreesen Wall

[Sirius]

We can use the panel from MOULa ? I though Cyan removed the clickregion of the buttons and just kept the visual part... interesting... I never knew how to convert these files without Drizzle, but I already saw the bug in MOULa.

If I remember correctly, the first part of the climb triggers then your avatar warps few meters down and the game is crashed ?

Anyway thanks. If we can have those panels, it will look better (and the back of it was open in UU, really a big thing missing).

[ddb174]

Yeah, the code for Delin and Tsogal was part of the client, so I had to reimplement it in Python. Fortunately, that meant I could make it work slower offline so that it could be done by a single person. There's been a lot of things that were said to be impossible, that I managed to find a way to do for Drizzle of Offline-KI ;) But sometimes things get back-burnered, depending on interest. Such is unpaid work!

[Agenotfound]

We can use the panel from MOULa ? I though Cyan removed the clickregion of the buttons and just kept the visual part... interesting... I never knew how to convert these files without Drizzle, but I already saw the bug in MOULa.

The buttons are python controlled that's why they're not clickable in Moula, they do work with the UU python being present though.
also there is an additional (non clickable) button at the bottom of the panel.

If I remember correctly, the first part of the climb triggers then your avatar warps few meters down and the game is crashed ?

Indeed you just have to get rid of the Cliimb trigger objects to prevent that (don't remember the exact names though)

[Sirius]

Ok, I re-opened the Blender file of grsnWallRoomClimbingPhys from UU. The climb triggers are named "cliimbTrigger", as you said. But why there are two i ?

The strange thing is even if you have a Python file, you still must set special properties on your object to tell it to use this file. But Python file or not, I think the panel is not clickable because the sentence in the SDL file "grsnClimbingWallEnabled[1]" is set to 0. It seems to removes the invisible clickregion for the chair and the clickregion for the buttons. This way there is nothing you can do in MOULa. I think they also changed the suit machine of grsnTeamRoom01 and 02 in order to make it look open, but they left the collider for it.

And if they didn't remove the buttons of the panels, I guess maybe they wanted to do something of it, as you can see how they really took a lot of time to disable it on CC. We can't really know.

How did you converted the file ? If you try to put it unchanged in CC, the whole game crashes (after updating the .sum file of course). The only things that already did it were the two Nexus, but I just changed the files from CC to have the books working (with the Relto book also) and not converted the files from UU. I don't even know if the bug is the same...

And are you sure the whole MOULa file works as in UU ? Of course we can't know about the blockers and all that, but there are also other systems (as the exit buttons).

@Dustin: Indeed, it seems if we want to play the Wall, we'll have to ask you again... . Ladders are not really the best way to climb the Wall... Do you think it would be possible to add something to Drizzle to avoid a manual "convertion" the Wall ? I know, it means a lot of work for you again, sorry...

[Agenotfound]

Ok, I re-opened the Blender file of grsnWallRoomClimbingPhys from UU. The climb triggers are named "cliimbTrigger", as you said. But why there are two i ?

Aaah, the mysteries of programmers humor... I don't know really.

The strange thing is even if you have a Python file, you still must set special properties on your object to tell it to use this file. But Python file or not, I think the panel is not clickable because the sentence in the SDL file "grsnClimbingWallEnabled[1]" is set to 0. It seems to removes the invisible clickregion for the chair and the clickregion for the buttons.

The SDL does indeed disable the whole thing but IIRC correctly you have to have the python from UU to make some of the clickable working. And the python can interfere on objects without the need of a pythonfilemod listing every single object.

This way there is nothing you can do in MOULa. I think they also changed the suit machine of grsnTeamRoom01 and 02 in order to make it look open, but they left the collider for it.

I don't remember how they did set it up in Moula but the Moul team room's file themselves do work completely as the UU ones, I guess the tube shows up as open because of the python for it being absent so it revert to it's default position.

And if they didn't remove the buttons of the panels, I guess maybe they wanted to do something of it, as you can see how they really took a lot of time to disable it on CC. We can't really know.

Well we know they were rewriting the whole thing to accommodate the new PhysX engine and were close to fixing in by the end of Moul as for the additional button I think they took advantage of the rewriting to make it more user friendly because let's face it : it's far from being intuitive !

And they didn't take a lot of time to rip it off they just erased most of the content of the climbing physics page in their scene before exporting and got rid of a few lines in the client that's all.

How did you converted the file ? If you try to put it unchanged in CC, the whole game crashes (after updating the .sum file of course).

Drizzle/ Advanced tab / Manual conversion / Moul but keep in mind that not all files are converted at 100% Dustin added compatibility for the Garrison files a couple of version ago though.

The only things that already did it were the two Nexus, but I just changed the files from CC to have the books working (with the Relto book also) and not converted the files from UU. I don't even know if the bug is the same...

you'll have to check for yourself because I don't remember either.

And are you sure the whole MOULa file works as in UU ? Of course we can't know about the blockers and all that, but there are also other systems (as the exit buttons).

They are only little differences between the Moul an UU version, the set up for the buttons is slightly different, the cliimb triggers are a bit different and also but I'm not sure but I think the simple region sensors might have been modified too, but on the overall much of it is the same.

what exit buttons are you speaking about ? the "abort button" on the bottom of the wall or something else ?


Additional safety Warning when working with the wall

The symptoms most commonly produced by Wall testing are
superstition, perceiving inanimate objects as alive, and hallucinations. The
DRC reminds you that the Wall pannels will never
threaten to stab you and, in fact, cannot speak.

[Sirius]

Wow, thanks a lot, Agenotfound !
For the conversion: once again, I had the solution in front of me but couldn't see it. I first looked into the list "Process a bunch of file" if it was there, but it wasn't (and I also tried with an other Myst V file, but it seems it is now disable in this part of Drizzle).

For the python file missing: then as it is open wouldn't it remove the collider ? Of course we can't use it, but we should at least be able to walk into it...

For the exit button: yes, I wanted to say the blue ones in the Wall area.

And also: Cyan removed objects, I know and it wasn't hard at all for them, but there are still strange things... as the Nexus: they removed the animation and left a link ??? And it wasn't only in the physics page: the team rooms still had problems, and about the GlobalAvatars: again it wasn't hard to do if you have the original file non-exported, but it was still another precaution.

it's far from being intuitive !

Well, it is a little more with this panel now. Thanks and thanks again... Fortunately they added a journal explaining it !

Additional safety Warning when working with the wall

The symptoms most commonly produced by Wall testing are
superstition, perceiving inanimate objects as alive, and hallucinations. The
DRC reminds you that the Wall pannels will never
threaten to stab you and, in fact, cannot speak.

Image

...and got rid of a few lines in the client that's all.

When you say it is in the client, is it really only in UruExplorer.exe ? Could there be something in another .dll file, or something like this ?
I also remember there are other files, if you look in the lower left window of PlasmaShop, you can find some files, as in "Plasma API/Plasma/ptClimbingWallMsg/addBlocker" (even if we already have this one, it is just an example)
But we can't copy or modify these files, just look to them. I don't know anything about these things however.

[ddb174]

@Dustin: Indeed, it seems if we want to play the Wall, we'll have to ask you again... ;) . Ladders are not really the best way to climb the Wall... Do you think it would be possible to add something to Drizzle to avoid a manual "convertion" the Wall ? I know, it means a lot of work for you again, sorry... :?

Do you mean so that when converting Moul, it would do the Wall files at the same time, as if they had done a manual conversion? It could be, though I usually try to avoid replacing Pots files with Moul files, and rather try to supplement them. If you guys can figure out what prp changes all have to be done to have a playable wall, then barring unforeseen problems, I imagine it could be done, yes.

[Karkadann]

/me waits with baited breath

In the mean time here are some older threads about enabling the Gehreesen wall that might be helpful

Question about the Gahreesen wall

Gahreesen Wall

[Sirius]

About the conversion: we shouldn't try to use too much MOULa file, but more UU file. I finally found two bugs in the file about "ClimbingPhys" from MOULa:
- as there was a conversion to PhysX engine (as Agenotfound said) there is a big problem with the climb triggers. You can easily remove them by editing the SceneNode, but there is another annoying part: the climb collider is now touchable EVEN if you are just walking. It causes a problem as you can't really walk on the sides of the catwalk. In MOULa, your avatar can have the collider in his body. Now we know why there were "sticky points".
We could do as the climb trigger, and remove it from the SceneNode, but it would be better to keep it (if we find the way to use it once again).
- once you played the Wall, got through one of the Nexus and went back in the corridors, the suit machines are down. Logical, but then you have a bug as the collider ISN'T and you can walk into it.

This is really a problem as the panels are better in MOULa and that I guess there are more people having MOULa than UU.


About trying to supplement CC files: I guess it would be hard, but as Drizzle can really easily change the sequence prefix of an Age, I guess it could change the PageName and PageNumber just fine, and tell to name it "WallClimbPhysMOUL/UU,125" or something like this. Then, we would have two climbing physical files, and there would be only one loaded each time. Using a special /set option, I guess we could tell which file we want the game to load on next link and be able to keep the old one, and also use the suit machines to have the maintainer suit in our Relto after a creating a new Avatar (but we would need to keep the TeamRooms as well). There is also something interesting: in MOULa, the hood's Garrison books ONLY load a few Well pages (try to climb behind the barricade, you'll see the whole upper part missing). It could be interesting, but I don't know how we could use it...
About the other files: I think we might still have modify the prps, but I guess it wouldn't be too hard for Drizzle to modify tiny things as the Nexus, if it uses uof files. The other prp files (and sound files) can be almost everyone copied from a folder to another. But it causes a problem for the suit machines...
For the Python files: when the journal cover was fixed in DI, was it by editing the file about it ? It seems the Offline-KI often uses new Python files and not edit the old ones.
For the Age file: as they are distributed with the Offline-KI, this is not a big problem.
For the Texture file: can Drizzle export/import a uof file from a prp to another ?

Anyway, I think it could lead to a few good ideas. Then, the big part is to make it really working, but I'm not good at all to these thing, I don't know if it can work.

[Agenotfound]

About the conversion: we shouldn't try to use too much MOULa file, but more UU file. I finally found two bugs in the file about "ClimbingPhys" from MOULa:
- as there was a conversion to PhysX engine (as Agenotfound said) there is a big problem with the climb triggers. You can easily remove them by editing the SceneNode, but there is another annoying part: the climb collider is now touchable EVEN if you are just walking. It causes a problem as you can't really walk on the sides of the catwalk. In MOULa, your avatar can have the collider in his body. Now we know why there were "sticky points".
We could do as the climb trigger, and remove it from the SceneNode, but it would be better to keep it (if we find the way to use it once again).
- once you played the Wall, got through one of the Nexus and went back in the corridors, the suit machines are down. Logical, but then you have a bug as the collider ISN'T and you can walk into it.

I don't know what you did but I never had any of these problems,the wall area is completely walkable and the tube are 100% working for me.
About deleting objects: it's really not a problem as if in the future more function are restored, a new conversion of the files would be likely required.

About trying to supplement CC files: I guess it would be hard, but as Drizzle can really easily change the sequence prefix of an Age, I guess it could change the PageName and PageNumber just fine, and tell to name it "WallClimbPhysMOUL/UU,125" or something like this. Then, we would have two climbing physical files, and there would be only one loaded each time. Using a special /set option, I guess we could tell which file we want the game to load on next link and be able to keep the old one, and also use the suit machines to have the maintainer suit in our Relto after a creating a new Avatar (but we would need to keep the TeamRooms as well).

About conversion: Drizzle can accomplish pretty complicated actions, a feature called distillation which is part of the main conversion process can modify and merge Uru files. For instance the door in the kadish gallery in the city come from Moul and are now merged in the CC files+modifications of the city vis regions. So it's just a matter of listing the exact changes and forwarding them to Dustin. Adding pages is probably not a good idea in this case the uru folder is already quite huge especially with all the fan ages.
About the maintainer suit, The CC version added a pythonfilemod to make the tube machine give you the suit and remove the animation of the trap doors so that you wouldn't fall, I guess it would be quite easy to merge the pyhton code of the CC version so that using the working tube add the suit to your closet as well.

There is also something interesting: in MOULa, the hood's Garrison books ONLY load a few Well pages (try to climb behind the barricade, you'll see the whole upper part missing). It could be interesting, but I don't know how we could use it...

It's this way because the hood version of garrison is meant only to get your KI, The Garrison age is never fully loaded and that is one of the reasons why it's terribly broken in Alcugs servers.

About the other files: I think we might still have modify the prps, but I guess it wouldn't be too hard for Drizzle to modify tiny things as the Nexus, if it uses uof files. The other prp files (and sound files) can be almost everyone copied from a folder to another. But it causes a problem for the suit machines...
For the Python files: when the journal cover was fixed in DI, was it by editing the file about it ? It seems the Offline-KI often uses new Python files and not edit the old ones.
For the Age file: as they are distributed with the Offline-KI, this is not a big problem.
For the Texture file: can Drizzle export/import a uof file from a prp to another ?

As I said drizzle is perfectly capable of doing such modifications. uof files are exchange files used by PRPexplorer Drizzle as it's own system but it can merge easily textures - The Dock Dalek texture have been merged into the CC texture prp for the city for instance.
Again I have no problem with the suit machines.
And the offline KI does change the existing python in addition to adding new one.