Message Redacted?

[Branan]

You are absolutely correct, more transparency is always good. I was intentionally vague because there are more announcements coming, and I didn't want to preempt anything. Nothing is set in stone yet, and there will be ample opportunity for discussion and voting.

This has not been some long-running conspiracy - Myself and some other representatives spent time today discussing with Lontahv and Hoikas what sorts of changes could be made to work on improving the Guild's position within the overall MOULagain community, and how we can make sure we're able to work with Cyan in the future, as fan content and open source progress.

The decision to remove the note was one Hoikas felt he and Lontahv could make without a public vote, since the council has the power to manage "Day-to-day guild operations, like forum layout, adding new features to the website or guild infrastructure".

As far as the PMs you sent, Hoikas' view is that if it was a major issue to you, then you should have brought it up for a vote by the representatives. It's the position of the Council that the banner falls under "forum layout". I'm inclined to side with him on that point, though I think a response to your PM explaining the clause he was working under would have been preferable to ignoring you.

I think both you and Hoikas agree that things should be done within the guild structure, there's just a bit of disagreement over just what that structure means. If you feel the "non-criticical matters" rule is being applied too broadly, I would urge you to bring it up for debate in the proper forum.


Obviously some of this would be preferable coming directly from Hoikas - I'm posting it on his behalf because he's liable to be a dick about these things.

<Hoikas> I do hope that someone will make a prettified version of my post for me XD

[JWPlatt]

If we take Whilyam's claims at face value, it would be in my best interests to withhold the suggestions I make here.

I'm generally supportive of the guilds and I view them as an opportunity for cooperation, not competition. OpenUru.org is a place for open source resources and tools made available to those who need them. It does not do development, per se, though it might. Its members do. It supports development like yours, thus it is in a different service space than the Guild of Writers. The Guild of Writers is free to use our tools in all the work it does here. That's not to say it will. But it is welcome to them.

[Chacal]

PoK, thanks for answering.
I think it is good news you are bringing about the discussion you mention.

Also I agree that most day to day guild operations do not need approval.

In my opinion, care should be exercised for actions that could have a serious impact on the Guild's reputation, such as putting that particular sign up. It would have been better to consult representatives, even if technically it was a forum layout change. Taking the sign out, of course, is not risky, so I have no problem with that.

You are absolutely correct, more transparency is always good. I was intentionally vague because there are more announcements coming, and I didn't want to preempt anything. Nothing is set in stone yet, and there will be ample opportunity for discussion and voting.

This has not been some long-running conspiracy - Myself and some other representatives spent time today discussing with Lontahv and Hoikas what sorts of changes could be made to work on improving the Guild's position within the overall MOULagain community, and how we can make sure we're able to work with Cyan in the future, as fan content and open source progress.

The decision to remove the note was one Hoikas felt he and Lontahv could make without a public vote, since the council has the power to manage "Day-to-day guild operations, like forum layout, adding new features to the website or guild infrastructure".

As far as the PMs you sent, Hoikas' view is that if it was a major issue to you, then you should have brought it up for a vote by the representatives. It's the position of the Council that the banner falls under "forum layout". I'm inclined to side with him on that point, though I think a response to your PM explaining the clause he was working under would have been preferable to ignoring you.

I think both you and Hoikas agree that things should be done within the guild structure, there's just a bit of disagreement over just what that structure means. If you feel the "non-criticical matters" rule is being applied too broadly, I would urge you to bring it up for debate in the proper forum.

[GPNMilano]

Glad to see our banner back to usual.

On that note: I'm inclined to offer a suggestion for the future. Why not let the individual members of the Guild decide if they want to point out that their message is redacted. I for one keep my signature over at MOUL with the smaller logo for a reason. It's because it's a protest of Cyan's moderation policies.

Rather than change the banner, perhaps in the future the Guild as a whole can take this more neutral approach. Don't change the layout to further a message. But rather, allow the guilds members to use their signatures and avatars in forums to relay the message. Like it or not these forums may be paid for by it's admins, but they are used, and are specifically for the Guild of Writers. The opinions of the admins of these forums should never, dictate how they run the forum nor the layout of said forum. Otherwise they are no better then the harsh moderation over at MOUL. The guild, as a whole, should never take an official stance on a subject one way or another but always remain neutral. It's members are entitled to their opinions. The guild itself, as a whole is not, because it is a collection of individuals, and those individuals opinions do not reflect everyone elses. Changing the banner made it seem like EVERYONE in the guild believed their message was being redacted. Not everyone felt this way. Hence why it was not the greatest way to invoke a stance.

The views expressed here are only my own and do not reflect any group I am or have ever been, or will ever be a member of. If you don't like said views, you can stuff it, cause their mine and they're not changing.

[theclam]

If "Message Redacted" goes back up again, could it link to an explanation?

[Branan]

Representatives: Hoikas has made his post in the appropriate forum. Let's get this ball rolling.

[Chacal]

The guild, as a whole, should never take an official stance on a subject one way or another but always remain neutral. It's members are entitled to their opinions. The guild itself, as a whole is not, because it is a collection of individuals, and those individuals opinions do not reflect everyone elses.

A good point, I hadn't thought about that.
This should be kept in mind for the future.

[diafero]

Paladin (I see you are now called Branan here as well... whatever^^), I guess you meant this announcement?

[Chacal]

Holy cow... with all the important things Cyan should be doing, this is what they come up with?

[Branan]

Paladin (I see you are now called Branan here as well... whatever^^), I guess you meant this announcement?

I bugged Hoikas to update my name, I haven't used PaladinOfKaos since High School (shows how long I've been in the Uru community).

Yes, that's the top secret thing. It's a huge show of faith on Cyan's part, and the main reason I've started pushing the Guild leadership to work on cleaning things up and being in a position to work with Cyan is because of that show of faith.