Rules for Age Content

[Pryftan]

You think Cyan will ignore our organizing a set of rules for their benefit, and yet will personally respond to every single individual builder's request to include derivative work in their storyline? That makes absolutely no sense at all. The whole point of this is that Cyan won't be able to respond individually to everybody, so it's better for us if we have a set of rules that represents their viewpoint that we consult instead of them.

[BAD]

Yes.

EDIT: I don't think you understand that in order to protect their copyrights, they are obligated to respond to any and all requests of those who wish to create derivative content. Not responding, could very well be taken as acceptance. This happens a lot actually.

If we send a list of rules and an explanation that we wish to start a group making all sorts of derivative work, they will most likely ignore the request. The time and energy it would take to read, reword, and submit back to us the list of rules would be more difficult to do than simply proof reading a pile of scripts for anything they don't like, and sending out a form letter. Something they have to do anyway.

EDIT2: Another note. We will not need to submit every little detail of the ages we create. We will only have to submit the description and perhaps some concept art at first. Cyan will then decide if they will allow us to proceed, and then you receive a Third Party Work agreement, or a letter telling you you cannot make what you submitted as it is to close to something Cyan was planning on creating. If the latter happens you can try to change your work to resubmit. The former will detail everything you can and cannot do.

[Pryftan]

You're correct that Cyan will have to review an Age before putting on their servers, but it's silly for them to have to do it for every Age that may or may not actually be finished. We should get a set of rules for things we shouldn't even bother trying, because it's obvious Cyan will have a problem with them. Then, working off that list, we make an Age and send it to them and that's when they decide if they should host and support it or not. Sure, there's the chance they could say it's too similar to something they were going to create but a) I think the odds of that are very low and b) sending them concept art that rarely represents a completed Age won't help to avoid that anyway.

I think Cyan will want to review our Ages, but in concept art form, before it's actually an Age at all? That makes no sense either. And why should we waste their time asking them if we can make an Age that breaks any of the rules we've set forth thus far? If we know the answer will be no, it makes no sense to go ahead and ask.

[DaveRamos]

You're correct that Cyan will have to review an Age before putting on their servers, but it's silly for them to have to do it for every Age that may or may not actually be finished. We should get a set of rules for things we shouldn't even bother trying, because it's obvious Cyan will have a problem with them. Then, working off that list, we make an Age and send it to them and that's when they decide if they should host and support it or not. Sure, there's the chance they could say it's too similar to something they were going to create but a) I think the odds of that are very low and b) sending them concept art that rarely represents a completed Age won't help to avoid that anyway.

I think Cyan will want to review our Ages, but in concept art form, before it's actually an Age at all? That makes no sense either. And why should we waste their time asking them if we can make an Age that breaks any of the rules we've set forth thus far? If we know the answer will be no, it makes no sense to go ahead and ask.

Here is my 2 cents:

Why would we even be submitting an unfinished age to cyan at all? To me, they would be concidered "works in progress" and nothing cyan would want to look at anyway. However, as many guidelines as we can create (which is definitely a good idea), Im surprised we haven't heard anything from Cyan. I would think that if they want us to go to the direction that we are trying to go, that they would already have rules of their own for us to abide by. Then again, this is not going to happen overnight, and they may be in the process of creating guidelines, just as we are. Obviously we all want to see user created ages as soon as possible, but legal stuff like this takes time....

DR

[Whilyam]

This is why my first rule was:

Rule 1: Writers may not use any content used or distributed by Cyan unless explicit written permission is given.

Content meaning textures, models, sounds, storyline, etc.

[Pryftan]

I really doubt it's necessary to limit ourselves so far as to have to try and get official support from Cyan for every proto-Age that so much as touches on their material. It seems obvious to me that we should have a set of rules that clearly define when we're in the clear and when we're not. If we want to breach one of the rules set forth thus far, that's when we try and contact Cyan about our idea. Otherwise we'll be sending ideas to them all the time, already able to predict the outcome of 99% of them - anything largely contradicting the rules set forth on the front page of this thread will be rejected.

[Jennifer_P]

I think after we've finished drumming out a set of rules here, we should post them over on the MOUL forum for public input as well.

[BAD]

OK I don't really know why I am not getting any support from others who have actually gone through the process of dealing with Cyan directly, but I will not let you all go astray from what is basically the norm when it comes to using others IP.

You may think it is "silly" or doesn't make sense, but the way I describe is the way I HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN DONE WORKING WITH CYAN WORLDS THEMSELVES. I am not making up stories, or conjecturing on what I think they will do.

If you intend to publicly display, allow downloading, and install any content that will be added to, modify, or use any of the Uru games, you will need Cyan's permission to do so. Yes on an individual basis.

Why does it make sense to submit concept art and descriptions first? Because it is a hell of a lot easier to modify things at that stage, than it would be to submit a whole completed age and them sending you a letter refusing your submission.

Now, your going to say that if we get a set of rules to follow, than there is no way that could happen, right?

Wrong. We could still create an age that may be something Cyan thought up already, but haven't released to the public. Plus Creating rules based on what we "think" Cyan will approve is a terrible idea. We need to test the waters and see what they will approve before we go to far and stifle creativity.

I don't know how much clearer I can make this.

Here is a thought. You don't believe me fine. Contact Cyan yourself directly. Communicate to the legal department directly, and ask them how they would rather deal with the content that this group creates. It is that simple.

[Pryftan]

What doesn't make sense is the claim that we should go ask Cyan if we can do any of the things we've already set forth as things you can't do if we already know we can't do them. The idea of the rules is to set boundaries that you just can't breach, whether you ask Cyan or not, and so waiting for a response from Cyan is just a waste of time.

Now when it comes to getting permission to modify the Uru games, I think you'll find that Cyan has done that in a completely non-individual way, knowing that if certain programs were allowed to be created, they simply could not speak to every single person that downloaded the software to make sure they use it in a particular manner. So they've told us things we can or cannot do. Otherwise known as rules.

And yes, the plan is to contact Cyan if we can stop bickering and get the list done.

[Paradox]

I agree to an extent with what BAD is saying, usually Cyan does require every Age to be submitted for legal scrutiny before it can be released in any form.

However, a list of rules that protect certain things will make it easier for Cyan, because then they know to trust (to a degree) that nothing in the Age violates their IP and that the content is suitable for Uru.