Guild of Writers

Yes... I see, I guess the only way to make good ages is practice... although, perhaps we could have a live support, like the Guild of Maintainers, where if someone is bored, they can log in and help some other writers... it wouldnt work all the time, but it would be a possibility... but ya... I think I understand the thing about polished ages... maybe a critique would be better, and the writer could see if the criticism is right, or if it's just the other writer's style talking.

and about plasma... I think it's just fine... it may be hard at times, but if writing ages was easy, we'd all be making Second life graphics ages /cringe

it may be hard at times, but if writing ages was easy, we'd all be making Second life graphics ages /cringe

You said it. That sums it up PERFECTLY.

Yes Justin, I too am a second-life disliker. And it's just based in the way it looks and the people... it's based(partly) in how I've heard it runs... Almost everything has to be digested by the server before you can do it. That's why it's 7X more laggy than Uru during a lag-spike.
So yeah, it's bad.

~Lontahv

No Lontahv, I don't want the water of Ovlivion......

I want the water from here:

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Ah! But I want much more than the water.....I want the rocks to like like in there too, the lighting to look like it also...not....."painted" on like we just about have to do here. I want things to look real like in here too:

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Yes, I want things easier, most people do. What other kinds of water or features I want? Gee, how about when I put in a water texture, it automatically has the ripples it needs, has movement it needs, and reflects everything without the need of making an enviormental map.........and ojects that cast shadows, simply because they are THERE and the program KNOWS where the shadows should be.........not painted or decaled on......gee, something like here:

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Please note: I am not advicating, nor trying to make people go to Oblivion nor leave here and go use the TES Construction set! Please stop putting words in my mouth! Maybe you simply mis-understood, so I'll say it as simply as I know how:

I advocate the idea of giving Uru a new game engine so that tools for same said engine are easier to use, and Age creation is easier for people to learn, so that they are not waiting another 5 years to be able to have the things we see in other games. Period.

If it happens, it happens. If not, oh well, life will go on. I will go on and do what is fun, but will still be here watching what goes on here too.

If the plugin suddenly becomes a cinch to use, and we could apply all the things we see in Uru, without having to go through tons of scripting, or trying to find a way to re-invent the wheel, then great! I still think Uru does not look anywhere near as good and other games (especially Riven, Myst III, Myst IV). But I would be happy to see that many more people flock to Age Creation because they don't have to learn to become programmers first. I've seen tons of levels and maps created by people for other games, put out at a constant rate that look outstanding (I've also seen ones that suck too, yes....). All done by one person. Teams are great if you have them. I know, I have one now, even though I'm the only one on the team that understands enough of the plugin to even think of making an Age.

Give me the ability to make an Age look as good as this (minus the guns and explosion of course) using Plasma, and I'll shut my mouth:

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anywhere near as good and other games (especially Riven, Myst III, Myst IV)

I'm sorry, but you can't compare the two. URU is a real-time 3D game engine and the others are pre-rendered screens/360's and anims. If you want to create Ages like Riven, Myst III and Myst IV, you already have the tools - Blender 3D. You don't need anything else.

Give me the ability to make an Age look as good as this (minus the guns and explosion of course) using Plasma, and I'll shut my mouth

I say shut your mouth Because there is nothing in that last screenshot that you can't do in Plasma with some good modelling, texturing and lighting already.

-: D'eux :-

Then it's simple: Put out. Let's see. I've yet to see it.

Yes, Blender is VERY powerful. Yes, it can render what we see in the other Myst games.

So then why don't I see that in Uru? Hmmmm?

Again, y'all do what you want. Many of those that have been advocating for a new engine and easier to use tools have given up and left already. Sorry to see them go, but I understand them having a heart attack when looking at all the scripting involved, or light map baking just to get an Age lit decently, when you don't have to do that with other games. When they have a great idea for something, but need shadows.......but then have to make their own shadows.......

As I said, I simply advocate for something easier, and better. But I'm not at the helm, I don't have any control over it. Only a select few do. And they've already decided to stick with Plasma, for better......and for worse.

Then it's simple: Put out. Let's see. I've yet to see it.

'Put out' what exactly? No-one is under any obligation to prove anything to anyone.

Yes, Blender is VERY powerful. Yes, it can render what we see in the other Myst games.
So then why don't I see that in Uru? Hmmmm?

Because it appears some people fail to grasp the fundamental differences between a production renderer like Blender has and a real-time engine like Plasma.
Also, you cannot blame a game engine for a lack or deficiency of modeling, texturing and environment creation skills. As I said before, one could work in the best game engine in the world, but if they are a poor content creation artist whatever they turn out is still going to look sucky.

I think what you are confusing is the differences in roles between a Level Designer who uses content created by the Modelers and Texture Artists who produce the libraries of content that Level Designers use and the content creators themselves. With Plasma and Age writing, you have to be all three. If you just want to build levels, then yes you'll have to find some pre-made content elsewhere.

It also sounds a little one-sided to expect the coders here to build a nice set of 'point and click' level building tools, in their spare time, for no charge and with no input from anyone else, just so that everyone else can place objects, lights and effects easily and where they want them.

-: D'eux :-

Keep in mind that a lot of our current "difficulties" with making ages is due to the fact that what we know about Uru is reverse engineered. Everything we've accomplished so far has been done with out the help of those who wrote the engine. By the way, the Dev Team Rocks! You guys are great! It still amaizes me what you guys have managed to accomplish.

As for it being hard, yes it is. But you will find that working in 3D and especially realtime 3D is difficult. Yeah, shading is hard, but being a pioneer is hard. We're all blazing a trail for the guild down the road. Andy, if you look closely at those fps images you posted, you'll start to see some of the same tricks that we use in Uru. Can you see the spiral geometry in the plants? Looks familiar. Real time 3D is all about coming up with tricks to fool the eye into thinking there is more than what you see.

At the moment, I don't think that we've reached the peak of what plasma is capable of. That will take time and patience. Nothing that we rush to get will be good.

Down the road, if Cyan is able to follow through on it's hopes of releasing some of the Uru code, we may find we can do even more. As for me until then, I've got my hands full learning what we already have. Maybe once I feel comfortable with it myself, I'll turn around and write some tutorials for others.

I think that as we get better and better, you will see more and more stunning ages come out of the guilds. Age writing may not be for the faint of heart, but since when has the Uru community been prone to fainting.

Did anyone check out if Valve's Steam Engine has really a competitive price as they suggest? Or paid engines are out of question even if they are kind of affordable?

A quick search of the web estimates Steam licensed out at around $200,000. Not really an option I'm afraid.

-: D'eux :-

Uhh... true that's not "competitive" ... Thnx for the info.