Guild of Writers

kaelisebonrai, you're wilfully missing the point, aren't you? When accusations such as "not having a brain" start to fly, it's a clear sign of something.

Stop babbling about your private use.

There is a problem with file sharing, and your post demonstrates why. People are concerned about that.

I had to read BAD's post again:

Do any of you fear mongers really think anything you say will stop anyone with the skills to do it, from converting the Magiquest files? Get off your high horses, soap boxes and podiums. No one who really understands this group cares what you have to say.

Such a blatant display of immaturity does make you wonder. Is this gang of hackers to be trusted at all? Would you entrust access to you home computer to them? By their own word, they don't care what you have to say. Cyan's rights? Go down the drain. Your rights? What's that again? Who gives a damn. If I can build a back-door into my code in order to access a stupid user's credit card number, why not? Because I can, because it's fun, because I am clever and all of them Joes are stupid.

Why should anyone trust a guild of hackers?

I can add another reason to Andy's.

4: Ease of use. I have Drizzle-converted Myst V files on my Uru installation because I own Myst V and want to be able to explore the ages therin.

Some of this really comes down to Cyan not thinking ahead/not thinking enough. It would have been (relatively) simple for them to convert Myst V to Uru format/use the drizzle converter and give that conversion to people who had purchased Myst V.

In the end, this legal dichotomy is almost purely of Cyan's making. Their lack of communication skills and apparent inability to adapt to a changing game environment has been holding them back for years. Chogon has improved communication slightly over GD, but the adaptation portion isn't coming along. Instead of working with people and building relationships, they hold people in limbo.

Yeah, people saying that "this is what the GOW should do" to the people who created and run the GoW is silly. But also, I wouldn't go putting MQO stuff on my drizzle unless I purchased MQO (which is unlikely)

Why should anyone trust a guild of hackers?

Put simply, because they're the ones that got you this far. Drizzle.

Its a hack.

PyPRP, only possible because of the hackers.

New Ages: Again, thanks to these hackers you so dislike.

ULM, UAM, etc, oh, what's this? Hackers again.

True, the only way this was all possible was with hackers. And it's not perfect, a few bugs have cropped up as a result.

The difference with new Ages is that while it is still a hack, you're required to obtain an FCAL from Cyan Worlds before you're able to publish it.

With MQ, the only way we're going to be able to convert it is if:
1. It's offline. Browser-based MMOs (not just MMORPGs, non-RPG games too) are becoming more popular. For all we know it will be done through a browser and not be a download.
2. The game engine used is Plasma-based. Looking at the screenshot it seems similar to the Uru engine, but I think since the last engine was built there will have been a few updates that would make the MQ Ages unplayable with Uru.

I don't mean to sound like a pessimist but consider this: Cyan knows that people have converted MystV and MOUL Ages to use offline. They will probably have something set up to make sure the same can't be done with MQ.

edit: I'd like to point something else out too. While Cyan may have approved of UAM, that was before it was a part of Drizzle and a separate standalone application.

Screenshots? Where did you find screenshots?

kaelisebonrai wrote:

Why should anyone trust a guild of hackers?

Put simply, because they're the ones that got you this far. Drizzle.
Its a hack.
PyPRP, only possible because of the hackers.
New Ages: Again, thanks to these hackers you so dislike.
ULM, UAM, etc, oh, what's this? Hackers again.

Hacking by any other name is still hacking and we all have done it on some level but when the hacking is intended to cause damage you gotta wonder, are the same hackers who enjoy hacking a PC that does not belong to them the ones hacking the game and running the shard. Now Im not saying they are or not, I personally do not know, is it the Hacking that is delaying Uru Live don't know that either. Now put your self in their shoes.

Your gonna trust the same people with open source Uru that have been hacking your software the whole time. Your a software company out their trying to make money, is their hacking gonna prevent that, and if it does do I really wanna give them a freebee

try to put myself in the position of the other and look at it from their point of view
I gotta start taking my own advise one of these days

Then on the other hand Is their or has their ever been any proof that the hacking of Cyan software is or has in some way compromised their income. If so what was the particular type of hacking responsible for it. If Cyan said "one particular type of hacking into our software is or has compromised our income and we are unable and or unwilling to release Uru live in any way shape or form" and then after realizing that its the hackers that has closed Uru live for good and then the whole community found out. would you still feel good about it. Of course if this was true Cyan has always been to nice and to quite to say something ...........hmm to quite who was it that said always watch out for the quite one, cuz you never know that their thinking.........................................................

kaelisebonrai wrote:... thanks to these hackers you so dislike.

And so on. Again, had you read my posts you would have seen that I actually use Drizzle (being quite aware, like everyone else, that it's a hack) and that I appreciate Dustin's work so far. A wilful misunderstanding again?

By the way, my response was not aimed at Dustin but at the guys saying that we should not question what the GoW do, because this is their forum, and so on. This is simply silly. Of course their actions can be questioned. It's up to them to listen, and some of them obviously won't. That doesn't mean that they are right not to care, or that we should stop talking when we think we have a valid point.

Should we talk about this elsewhere, instead of directly to the persons involved? What do you mean exactly?

And why do you bring up how the entire site is run or what the GoW should do generally? This is about one specific point in one specific tool, is it not? And the GoW cannot budge because they are a pack of dogs that can run only in one direction? Or what?

I know, I have stated my point already, but the kind of response people get here irked me to respond in fashion.

Oh, and I don't dislike the hackers. Should go without saying but apparenty not.

Edit:
I'm trying to influence a decision by talking to the person(s) making the decision. If I can't, well, I tried. Now some third(?) parties chime in with "don't tell us what to do cuz we're not listening and this is our playground anyways".

Oookay. Is that it? I have misjudged this place badly. OK, I will move on, but first:

Dustin, and possibly others (if you are directly involved in Drizzle): Will you add MQ conversion to Drizzle?
Would you accept it if someone else forked Drizzle and provided a version without that functionality? Because such a cleaned-up version would definitely be in demand and the GoW may not be the ones to provide it. Would you be able to co-operate with such a third party?

That's about it. Oh, and if there are Uru related news when it comes to Drizzle and stuff, please post them on the uruobession forums!

@diafero: http://www.magiquest.com/

If you can survive the cheesy music one of the pictures had what looked like an Uru-esque avatar from behind. That's the only thing I could find, but then again I'm not going to really try looking.

I got a response back from Cyan the other night 3 hours after bringing this topic to their attention at legal@cyan.com via E-Mail. It didn't have a signature from anyone specific in the reply, but I'm assuming it is from Tony Fryman, (President of Cyan Worlds for those who don't know) since he has always been the one to answer to me whenever I contact legal@cyan.com

This is what I sent:

Show Spoiler

Hi there Cyan Worlds,

It's rare that I send a message using E-Mail this way, but I feel Cyan Worlds needs to know.

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=3441&start=0

There has been a discussion going on the Guild of Writers forum, stating that people are talking about converting the MagiQuest worlds into Uru. (Just so you know I am "Jamey" on the forums)I tried telling many that this was a bad idea and it would hurt the realism of Uru, not to mention that it could be illegal, but people are still talking about it, and I don't want them to end up doing this and hurting Cyan Worlds or Creative Kingdoms.

I also tried asking on the Myst Online forums, only to have my topic deleted 10 minutes later.

Do you know if this is even legal? I hope that you'll be able to respond back soon. Is there anything you can do to settle this issue? Anything I can do to help?

-Jamey

And here is the official response from Cyan themselves, word-for-word:

Show Spoiler

Thanks Jamey. We definitely don't want MagiQuest worlds into Uru. I'll have to see what we can do.

Thanks for the offer of help. Nothing required at this time. We'll post something shortly.

There you have it. Cyan does NOT want us to convert/put Magiquest ages into Uru. So please, let's respect Cyan's wishes for their game

Jamey wrote:There you have it. Cyan does NOT want us to convert/put Magiquest ages into Uru. So please, let's respect Cyan's wishes for their game

We can still read and talk about it though.