Guild of Writers

@ nynaveve, sure the next contest could revolve around a spontaneous item, but this time the item isn't "centre stage", and you can do anything you like with it, just as long as its somewhere inside the Age that can be seen

The object in question shouldn't impede and will most likely will not impede on your creativity or style, it may not even be an object, but something.

Would it be easier to say now what it'll be?

The contest hasn't even started yet

Its merely there to see how well you can build an Age from scratch scratch, the previous contests gave you plenty of time to do pre planning, so its difficult to know if everyone started planning at the same time.

The original idea, before the first RAD started was to get everyone who wanted to enter, to enter, and then when the contest starts tell them what is required - that is unfair and the idea was tossed, still we'd like to see the spontaneity of writing, without hindering any facet of it.

So no fears that its going to be a huge spire that has to be in the centre of the Age, its going to be very different from that.

Thats why Robert and I agreed to let you all know before hand that there is a twist rather than tell you that there is a twist when the contest starts.

For example, if the item was a small coin that is lying on the ground, would that impact on your Age at all?

Grogyan wrote:For example, if the item was a small coin that is lying on the ground, would that impact on your Age at all?

No. But I know the judges might/probably judge by how well this fits in.

Changing rules is generally frowned apon (as the Tsar pointed out).

This is about how you announced it rather than the idea. Let this be what we all agreed to.

It's bad form to change the rules on people after they've been "Finalized". This condition would have been fine if it had been laid out before the contest was opened for signups and the judges selected. As it is, the current contest should not be affected by this rule, and it should be held off until the next contest, as should ALL further ideas to "improve" the contest rules.

I too think that this idea should be saved for the next RAD. I like the idea, don't get me wrong, but I think if people knew in advance about it rather than have it dumped into the contest after the judges and people had already signed up, it would have been fairer.

It may or may not impede creativity, but now we're all going to be worrying to the first if this "object" is going to fit with our intended scheme. For instance what if someone was planning on building a D'ni garden age. If it was a coin it wouldn't fit into RAWA's rules if it wasn't D'ni in origin. etc.

I won't drop out of the contest if this continues as planned, but I may be inclined to not join another RAD if they are run this way. No offense to any of the people who worked to put the RAD's together.

I do in fact like the idea itself - provided that there is only a description of the item, and not the actual item as an object. Like just "palm tree", which would allow for everything from an actual palm tree to an image of a palm tree engraved in a rock somewhere.

However, it's very unfair to just "decide" that it's going to be done after the rules have been laid out already. At the very least you should have just pitched the idea for discussion, instead of just pushing it down out collective throats.

That being said, I like the idea as a theme for the next RAD contest.

When you have a Pie Eating Contest, you know before hand that you will be eating lots of pies prior to actually having the contest. You might train for it, You may even have "mini" pie eating contests. But the fact remains: How many pies can you eat in a certain time period?

An Art contest. You may or may not be given a theme prior to it. Yes sometimes you are told you have to paint a certain object, and some even don't know what that object is going to be until it's unveiled.
However, if the Art contest merely says: "You have a 20 x 20 inch canvas, you must use oil paints, 1 week to paint the picture, judging will mostly be based upon how well the painting looks." Then that is what is done.

Not: "Oh, and you must some how put this coin in the picture."

What if the Age I make was barren? No one has been there, until the judges go there. How would the coin have ended up there?

I understand what y'all are trying to do. Y'all are trying to make sure that everyone starts making their Age at the same time. No head starts.

The problem is: You're trying to control the thinking process that goes into making an Age. A person might think or plan on and Age for half a year, before they make it. Or it just suddenly came to them in one night and they started work the next day.
By insisting that something that you guys come up with has to be in the Age does 2 things:

1) It might make it an unfair contest (I'll explain)
2) It's no longer about creating something from our heart, but making sure we make something that fits your object. No mater how small or insignificant it might seem.

On #1: some people can think on their feet fast. Some can't. That's just life. Just about any contest that is held, many people have enough advanced notice that they can think about what it is that they want to do, and how to go about it.
In doing this, you are demanding that everyone try to think at the same speed. Have the same amount of time to think about it, regardless of other things that might be going on or real life that may interfere.

That's just not fair considering what the contest was suppose to be about: It was suppose to be (when I brought the idea over here) about how well people could make small, relaxation type Ages that are simple and make them look as best as they can, in a 3 week period.
Which was really about: How fast can you work? How well can you work fast? Can you make something simple, yet elegant at the same time?

Now it's being made into not only all of the above but also: How fast can you think? How fast can you plan?
What happens if Harry and Joe enter the contest. They get handed the object, and now they both realize what they wanted to do won't fly?
Well, yes, now they both have to scrap any thinking or planning they may have done prior to the start date. But guess what? Harry has "Writers Block" now. He really can't think of anything, where as Joe was able to snap his finger 5 minutes after knowing what the object was, and decided what to do. After a whole week goes by, Harry finally get's his idea that he thinks will work.
Guess what? Joe just got an extra week to work on his Age that Harry didn't.

If you can't trust me to wait and start work on my age until 1 November, than I'm really sorry you feel that way, or also feel that way about the other contestants. Trust is all I have to offer. Not being trusted makes me sorry I even stepped over here and pitched the idea of another RAD.
It was an idea to help make several small Ages get out there for people to see, and something for people to do. Not get them all ticked off.

OK - Grogyan and I agreed to take out the item requirement. We'll consider it for the next contest, but before that happens, I'll need you all to clarify some things first.

1. At what point should the contest rules be finalized: before it starts, or before anyone signs up to it?

2. Was the objection to the item based on the concept itself, or the fact that it was introduced after you signed up to the contest?

3. What is an acceptable way to test how fast people can think within a short amount of time, and during the same time?

1) The rules should be discussed and finalized before anyone signs up and before judges are chosen. Mainly so that people who sign up have a good idea of what they are getting into, and preventing awkward situations where changes would prevent or disincline a person from remaining signed up.

2) Personally, I was opposed to it mainly because the way it was introduced after sign-ups had begun. If it had been on the table for discussion beforehand, there probably would have been some other reasonable objections, but it could very well have made for an interesting challenge/theme for the contest.

3) I don't know. That's up to you. Besides, I didn't realize that was the point of this contest. I thought it was simply to encourage age creation by rewarding the creators of new ages and advertising the ages thusly created. If I thought the GoW was going to issue a final exam, I might have to start wondering when I enrolled in a 3 credit course. My schedule is full enough.

I think that we should let people plan before... or at least in their heads.

RTR, you have to accept that you can't tell people what to think and dream and when to do it. This is about _building_ ideas you've wanted to try out. This isn't about doing some kind of forced commissioned age. This is about MY ideas and how good my execution of them is.

I am very glad that this "include this thing" rule has been retracted for this contest.

In the future if you put this thing in you can't really call it a contest anymore. It's like a crossword puzzle then. Call it the age-making sporting event or something.

When you paint a picture for a contest you might have to conform to certain guidelines (say, paint a winter scene) but you don't have to "Paint a rainbow beaming over a serene winter scene in the woods.". Having to include that thing makes it more like a workshop than a real competition.

RTR, Grogyan, if you think you want to run this "include the unknown object in limited time" contest then you can go do that under a different name and I and others can run this like it should be run.


For this contest all will be well however because this new level of unwarranted control has been called-off due to protest.

...and for that I am: