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Re: ULM alternative?
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:31 am
by D'Lanor
diafero wrote:D'Lanor, the installation method I described (copying only the GUI and GlobalMarkers files) should give you as much of the Offline KI functionality as you can get without touching any age (besides the Relto bookshelf, these changes are completely done in Python).
Thanks. Yes, as long as we can decide how much hacks we want to add it is fine by me.
Re: ULM alternative?
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:38 am
by GPNMilano
andylegate wrote:You guys have permission to be distributing these files?
Can you guys please show us where you were given permission to do so?
As I said, we'll support this fully, IF we can be shown that you have permission to be distributing these .prp and .age files. What you have created is a great thing for people.
But if you all are distributing something that you are not suppose to, we can't support it. It's as simple as that.
Andy, IslmMuseumBooks, IslmLibraryBooks, and the dustTest prps are not cyan property. They use cyan textures and models, but are entirely new prps created with pyprp. As for the other cleft and city pages, they are the same as the CC ones except that some of the pythonfile mods and textures were changed to account for the new links, and to allow linking to the caldera from the cleft.
As for the other city files, I'm not sure why they're even in there. For that you'd have to ask Diafero.
Re: ULM alternative?
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:42 am
by andylegate
Where I drew my red lines is called: just being lazy with paint shop.
I'm well aware that dusttest and some of the other prp's are home grown and not Cyans.
The flying bahro are not home grown however.
So, y'all have decided, under your beliefs of "Fair Act" that you can use these files. Okay, which one of you are lawyers? Any of you have degrees in international laws?
Have any of you bothered to even ask Cyan?
Apparently, from your own statements, no. You've just decided to interpret things as you want to interpret them.
If I take a spark plug from someone's car, yes you are right, it doesn't really do anyone else any good with out the engine or the car. But the fact remains: that spark plug still belongs to someone else. Not me.
But I should not be surprised. I've noted in the past few weeks, Fans just basically saying: "To hell with Cyan, we're going to do what we want to do."
That's sad, and I guess this is the way it's going to end.
In anycase, I'll state once more: The Guild of Maintainers will NOT support the use of this, until Cyan speaks on it one way or the other.
If they say: Sure, no problem, have fun. Then the GoMa will jump on the band wagon with this. But until then, no. Sorry.
Re: ULM alternative?
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:56 am
by Gabriel
andylegate wrote:Where I drew my red lines is called: just being lazy with paint shop.
I'm well aware that dusttest and some of the other prp's are home grown and not Cyans.
The flying bahro are not home grown however.
So, y'all have decided, under your beliefs of "Fair Act" that you can use these files. Okay, which one of you are lawyers? Any of you have degrees in international laws?
Have any of you bothered to even ask Cyan?
Apparently, from your own statements, no. You've just decided to interpret things as you want to interpret them.
If I take a spark plug from someone's car, yes you are right, it doesn't really do anyone else any good with out the engine or the car. But the fact remains: that spark plug still belongs to someone else. Not me.
But I should not be surprised. I've noted in the past few weeks, Fans just basically saying: "To hell with Cyan, we're going to do what we want to do."
That's sad, and I guess this is the way it's going to end.
In anycase, I'll state once more: The Guild of Maintainers will NOT support the use of this, until Cyan speaks on it one way or the other.
If they say: Sure, no problem, have fun. Then the GoMa will jump on the band wagon with this. But until then, no. Sorry.
I seem to be caught in the middle of a raging argument, whilst trying to sort my own problem out.
I see that you have marked some of the PRP files distributed with MOUL presumably. Is the issue with these files one of distribution or editing or both?
Re: ULM alternative?
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:38 am
by diafero
As for the other city files, I'm not sure why they're even in there. For that you'd have to ask Diafero.
They contain the flying Bahro in the city. But there is no useful way to enable and control them, so I will soon upload a version without these files. I can post instructions on how to convert them yourself if you are interested.
Re: ULM alternative?
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:51 am
by ddb174
Andy:
Which is worse? To copy someone else's work (and pretend it's your own) without credit (but with permission), or to copy someone else's work with credit (but without permission)? I think it's unwise to let politicians determine your morality on your behalf...
Re: ULM alternative?
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:33 am
by andylegate
Do the following and the Maintainers will support this 100%:
1) Get Cyan to come out officially and say: "You may distribute the actual game files."
OR:
Get people off their butts. I've MADE a tutorial on how to make the Bahro flying around, if any one bothered to look, and it doesn't involve distributing game files.
Make a patch, don't share the files:
Make your home grown prp's. You made 'em, there yours to share. No problem.
Ah! But they do need to be put into the .age files, don't they?
Then make a patch! Don't distribute the .age files! You all are very bright. I've used your tools, and you apps, and all of you show time and time again just how smart and cleaver you are. You know how to code, how to edit, how to script, how to make Java apps, how to make VB apps. Then do it again. Make an app that will automatically add those prp's to the .age file and save it encrypted.
You could include UruFun with your download, and make a tutorial (or even ask me to do it, if any of you have BOTHERED to look at my tut's you know that I use lot's of pics and try to make it to where ANYONE can understand and follow them) that shows how to use UruFun to edit and save the .age file. No distribution of .age files needed.
Don't include MOUL prp's. Instead, make it to where Drizzle converts them. Jeez, you guys have this already. Why do you need to include those prp's? You don't! IF the person using this already has their MOUL files and Myst V files, then they only need Drizzle.
You are making Drizzle more and more user friendly, that's obvious, and there are so many out there that appriciate it.
So again, there is no need to distribute certain files.
Guys, I'm just asking you to think is all, and to come up with a way to do this that doesn't include sharing files that are not suppose to be shared is all. You all come up with a patch that can do what I'm talking about, and I'll personally lead the band wagon to promote this, not just over at the Maintainers, but everywhere else too.
Just distributing the files is the lazy person's way out. Sorry, but it is. It's also something that the Maintainers won't support. Sorry.
So change the download. Make it only contain what you can distribute, because they were files made by you. Include a patch that someone runs, and it automatically updates all the .age files that need to be updated. I know you all can do it.
or get Cyan to say: "No sweat. You can distribute our files all you want."
Re: ULM alternative?
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:57 pm
by Chacal
Yes, Andy, it would be great to be able to provide a patcher, patch files, instructions and tutorials for all of those changes.
However, it would also mean the changes would never go out because of the amount of work. You of all people know how much time it takes to write tutorials. Dustin, diafero and GPNMilano already spend an insame amount of time figuring out and testing those changes. I'm working on some more changes and it is discouraging at times.
Currently we lack the tools to provide patchers. Also re-using Cyan material sometimes is necessary, as some things cannot be patched.
More importantly, all this is done in order to keep Uru alive. Look at the amount of interest this has generated. Together with new Ages from the Writers, this is the only thing that will keep it alive. Cyan is not even in the picture any longer, and even if it was it would shoot itself in the foot if it tried to shut things up.
At least Dustin, diafero and GPNMilano don't try to pretend that the material is theirs. Can you tell me, with all the new Ages out there, that not one contains borrowed material without proper credit being made to the original author? And without proper permission? There's a lot of re-use, and it can be seen as a tribute to the talent of the author.
Re: ULM alternative?
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:34 pm
by Jeffrey
diafero wrote:
1 A link to the Teledahn Office into the Teledahn Linking Book
2 A link to the the D'ni Asheme'n Silo into the D'ni Book
3 Make all the linking panels moving panels.
You would have to manually do that in the Python code. The fist point doesn't even make sense as Sharper's office is not in Teledahn but in Ae'gura, so the link is placed there.
[/quote]
Sorry what I meant was the room in Teledahn with the fishtank, add that to the Teledhan Book when linked to it from the office in Aegura. Sorry if anyone was confused by this.
Re: ULM alternative?
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:42 pm
by Chacal
Actually you can add your own books in the lower shelf, with multiple pages. Granted, it has limitations (no custom book cover, same image for all links) but still it is a great way to add your own shotcuts and to reduce the number of books.
Here are some example in my current bookshelf:
Code: Select all
[Book 0]
link:Andy_Nexus,Andy's Nexus,LinkInPointDefault,A portal to MOUL and Myst5 Ages.,
link:Serene,Serene,LinkInPointDefault,Serene,
link:Zephyr_Cove,Zephyr Cove,LinkInPointDefault,Beautiful midnight island scenario; either for dreaming or having a great beach party!,
link:CampBravoDayTime,Camp Bravo Daytime,LinkInPointDefault,A Guild of Maintainers testing area at day.,
link:Campbravo,Camp Bravo Nighttime,LinkInPointDefault,A Guild of Maintainers testing area at night.,
[Book 2]
link:Toroolbah,Toroolbah,LinkInPointDefault,Whilyam's study; and the start of a mysterious series?,
link:Fens,Fens,LinkInPointDefault,A natural swampland area full of life. The colour green is absolutely overwhelming - perhaps goggles are a good idea :-) . There's green fog; green plants; green water; green grass...,
link:Maw,Maw,LinkInPointDefault,A nice little Age with a frustrating challenge.,
link:Bimevi,Bimevi,LinkInPointDefault,A garden Age.,
[Book 7]
link:DescentMystV,D'ni-Tiwah,LinkInPointDefault,The Crater in the desert; the secret entry to D'ni.,
link:DescentMystV,D'ni-Tiwah,LinkInFromThgrDirebo,The first Eder Tomahn (coming from Tahgira).,
link:DescentMystV,D'ni-Tiwah,LinkInFromTdlmDirebo,The second Eder Tomahn (coming from Todelmer).,
link:DescentMystV,D'ni-Tiwah,LinkInFromLakiDirebo,The third Eder Tomahn (coming from Laki).,
link:DescentMystV,D'ni-Tiwah,LinkInFromSrlnDirebo,The fourth Eder Tomahn (coming from Noloben).,
link:Direbo,Direbo,LinkInPoint1,Direbo... an Age for resting. Such a peaceful place... and a way to get to other Ages.,
link:Tahgira,Tahgira,LinkInPed1,A cold; barren prison Age where criminals were banned for life.,
link:Todelmer,Todelmer,LinkInPointDefault,An observatory Age; built to study the heavens.,
link:Todelmer,Todelmer,LinkInLakiKeep,The space Pod over Todelmer.,
link:Laki,Laki'ahn,LinkInPointDefault,A beautiful tropical island; but the scene of brutal and bloody entertainment.,
link:Siralehn,Noloben,LinkInPointDefault,A beautiful island at sunset; the home Age of the Bahro.,
link:MystMystV,Myst,LinkInPointDefault,The abandoned; ruined remains of the Myst island where it all began so long ago.,
link:KveerMystV,K'veer,KveerWarpPoint,The beautiful great hall on the famous island of K'veer in the cavern.,
link:KveerMystV,Releeshan,WarpReleeshan,The final refuge for the surviving D'Ni.,
Notice how I put several Ages from the same writer in one book (this may not be desirable for you, take it as a proof of concept). Also notice how I added a link to the space pod in Todelmer. Granted, this is not as useful now that Drizzle produces linking pedestals for MystV Ages that work correctly.
All you have to do is find the linking point using PageEditor or Blender, and add a picture in the /img folder. For the image, the readme file says:
Code: Select all
Cut a screenshot to 1280x814 (or 800x509 or 640x408 or other resolutions with the same aspect ratio)
then scale it to 410x168