Guild of Writers

kaelisebonrai wrote:In MOULagain, I've heard of fellow writers being attacked just because they wear the shirt. And this is before the whole bahro hax issue, etc.

We have a real communication problem here with the word 'hacker' (or hacking).
Some people here wave that word around being proud of it and that's understandable from a certain point of view; but for many (most) people outside of here 'hacking' is a distorted word synonym with piracy, harassement, pointless agressivity and all kinds of stupid negative behaviors. That might be annoying, but that's how the medias have distorted that word. It might be seen as ignorant, shortsighted, or plain stupid, but that's how it is and there's nothing we can do about it. Stop trying to educate people, we can't compete with the medias and pop-culture here.
People who see someone claiming to 'hack' Uru will throw stones at him/her without a second thought; and we have our part of responsability in that.
We don't want people to have a negative attitude toward us? Let's stop waving that word around. It is a little late, but better late than never.

BAD wrote:I like this idea that those who are into creating mods are entitled, impatient jerks who hate Cyan.

To be fair, some of us are not impatient by nature (far from it) but have indeed grown to become impatient lately (read: since the original OS announcement) and sometimes have been quite vocal about it.

Unfortunately Aloys has a point here. Personally I'd nearly forgotten the negative tone the words hacker and hacking have to the rest of the world, but I'm pretty sure the rest of the world hasn't.

How about using "reverse engineer", or "RevEng" instead.

We should call it what it is. Modifying. We are a modding community. I think avoiding the word hack is a good idea.

There's an instructional video in the spoiler to tell you why.

Show Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8V4Yon98vk

Aloys wrote:To be fair, some of us are not impatient by nature (far from it) but have indeed grown to become impatient lately (read: since the original OS announcement) and sometimes have been quite vocal about it.

To also be fair, not everyone is impatient in this community. As we do not paint the entire MOUL forums as ignorant jerks, we should not all be painted as angry, impatient Cyan haters.

diafero wrote:The whole online shopping is based on this.

No, someone simply started selling stuff online and people started paying them, and the courts uphold that it is like a regular sale. Large sales often involve signed documents, but small ones have no kind of written or verbal agreement, though they are treated as though there is an implicit one. There can be terms of sale that are upheld, but the wording can be confusing here, and different bodies of law are applicable.

BAD wrote:As we do not paint the entire MOUL forums as ignorant jerks, we should not all be painted as angry, impatient Cyan haters. ;)

Yeah, for example, I'm neither angry nor impatient ;)

BAD wrote:We should call it what it is. Modifying.

You are developers. Try that. It used to be "programmers" and "artists" but "developer" came in as "hacker" went out as they became more a profession than hobby. And despite what Paradox wrote, you'll gain more respect acting the professional. But if rogue and "[REDACTED]" is what you like, that's a choice, but don't be surprised by your treatment when you reinforce the media perception of "hacker."

I wish to reserve the right to be both angry and inpatient both seperately and in combination.

Back in the days of UU I started a body of work that was specificaly engineered to sit within UU without using any Cyan cannon that body of work has sat on hold since the announcement of D'mala. My patience has been sorely tried but to date I have not resorted to anger.

I have had anger directed at me. I have directed my frustration into creativity making an age into which I should be able to deposit my boy of work.

I can and allways have understood Cyans position on this. Just becuse I understand it does not mean I agree with their stance. I have long wanted to talk with Rand either face to face or even Avatar to Avatar about developing a new branch to cannon but I know it's just not going to happen no matter how frustrated I get.

Sod's law says that even if I could make it to a US Mysterium (I am on the UK side of the pond with no funding to cross) I would find myself at one where all of the staff at Cyan were off sick.

So I reiterate if I want to get angry or impatient thats my perogative.

Oh and for the record Avatar to Avatar with Rand just won't work I would just blend into the flash crowd.

JWPlatt wrote:You are developers. Try that. It used to be "programmers" and "artists" but "developer" came in as "hacker" went out as they became more a profession than hobby. And despite what Paradox wrote, you'll gain more respect acting the professional. But if rogue and "[REDACTED]" is what you like, that's a choice, but don't be surprised by your treatment when you reinforce the media perception of "hacker."

Hmm, this does make sense. IMO, "developer" sounds like a good term to use.

Trylon wrote:

JWPlatt wrote:You are developers. Try that. It used to be "programmers" and "artists" but "developer" came in as "hacker" went out as they became more a profession than hobby. And despite what Paradox wrote, you'll gain more respect acting the professional. But if rogue and "[REDACTED]" is what you like, that's a choice, but don't be surprised by your treatment when you reinforce the media perception of "hacker."

Hmm, this does make sense. IMO, "developer" sounds like a good term to use.

I don't think it's a good idea for us to pretend we are professionals, however *developer* doesn't outright mean professional programmer so I think it works. I still think that we should adopt the terms modding and mods for what we create besides ages.

J'Kla wrote:I wish to reserve the right to be both angry and inpatient both seperately and in combination.

Back in the days of UU I started a body of work that was specificaly engineered to sit within UU without using any Cyan cannon that body of work has sat on hold since the announcement of D'mala. My patience has been sorely tried but to date I have not resorted to anger.

I have had anger directed at me. I have directed my frustration into creativity making an age into which I should be able to deposit my boy of work.

I can and allways have understood Cyans position on this. Just becuse I understand it does not mean I agree with their stance. I have long wanted to talk with Rand either face to face or even Avatar to Avatar about developing a new branch to cannon but I know it's just not going to happen no matter how frustrated I get.

Sod's law says that even if I could make it to a US Mysterium (I am on the UK side of the pond with no funding to cross) I would find myself at one where all of the staff at Cyan were off sick.

So I reiterate if I want to get angry or impatient thats my perogative.

Oh and for the record Avatar to Avatar with Rand just won't work I would just blend into the flash crowd.

Well you certainly have my attention, any chance you would be willing to share your opus with your fellow Writers? Maybe we could help?

ddb174 wrote:

diafero wrote:The whole online shopping is based on this.

No, someone simply started selling stuff online and people started paying them, and the courts uphold that it is like a regular sale. Large sales often involve signed documents, but small ones have no kind of written or verbal agreement, though they are treated as though there is an implicit one. There can be terms of sale that are upheld, but the wording can be confusing here, and different bodies of law are applicable.

BAD wrote:As we do not paint the entire MOUL forums as ignorant jerks, we should not all be painted as angry, impatient Cyan haters.

Yeah, for example, I'm neither angry nor impatient

Yes technically without your signature or other identifying mark placed on an agreement, it is not fully valid, however in a court of law, evidence of misuse or reneging of an agreement on either side of the argument can be determined by circumstantial evidence. It's not always about what's written on the books.

Even verbal agreements can count at times depending on the situation. Do not think just because someone doesn't have your signature on a piece of paper they have no legal route to get compensation for something you did against an agreement they either told you about or made condition to using their product or services. There are no absolutes to the interpretation of laws.