Water and Puzzles in Korman?

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Water and Puzzles in Korman?

Postby Dulcamara » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:33 am

Hello everybody. :)

I tried to convert the new part of Alabaster, AlabastersDepths with Korman.
3 D Models, Footstep sounds and linkpoints are without problems.
But there is a lot of swimming and diving in AlabastersDepths. So I have come to my limits. I have not found a tutorial for water yet and I do not see the possibility to dive underwater. Korman say always Water need a flat plane..... But also if i give a flat plane i see no water.
Is that also important for the swim region? Becouse the diving is no possible with only flat plane.
Can someone say something about it?
I also wonder if it will be possible to use the cloths and play the puzzles which i made for this part.

I am very grateful for every answer.

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Re: Water and Puzzles in Korman?

Postby Deledrius » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:52 am

You're right, it looks like we don't have any documentation up yet for the Swim Regions. I'll write up a new page for you on that as soon as I can.

Meanwhile, here's a quick rundown of what you need:

The basic meshes from Step 1 & 2 from the old PyPRP tutorial should be correct still, so if you are converting existing water from your old .blend files, you won't need to do anything there.

In order to activate your existing water in Korman, select the water surface you made and go to the Properties window and select the Physics panel. Click on Add Modifier and select Swimming Surface, found in the Water group. In the box labeled "Detector Region", click to browse for the swimming detector region you made for this particular surface and select it. The other options in the box are hopefully self-explanatory and should look familiar to the values in your old AlcScript options for the swim region.

I don't believe anything else is necessary to get them working for you, but if you run into problems, please let me know so I can help you address them (and make sure we have better instructions as I write them up for the wiki).

_____

I'm not sure what you're asking about diving. Although there are some provisions for 3D swimming in Uru, it's not enabled in any version of the engine. Are you using a custom script to accomplish it? If so, then you may be able to use that same script with Korman, provided it isn't doing something that is specifically tied to Uru:CC (such as relying on the Offline KI code in some way). I would have to take a look at the script in order to help more, if this is the case.

The same answer applies to your question on the cloths and puzzles. As long as they're standard scripts, they should require little or no changes to work with Korman. There isn't a starter tutorial on how to hook them up yet, but the Python Node reference page and Logic Node page may help. You'll need to add the script to Korman that way, and then hook up the values and objects to it (similar to the list of parameters in the pythonfile portion of your old AlcScript).

I can be more specific in walking you through how to accomplish these tasks if you provide more information. I hope this is enough to get you going further! :D
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Re: Water and Puzzles in Korman?

Postby Dulcamara » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:49 am

Deledrius wrote:
In order to activate your existing water in Korman, select the water surface you made and go to the Properties window and select the Physics panel. Click on Add Modifier and select Swimming Surface, found in the Water group. In the box labeled "Detector Region", click to browse for the swimming detector region you made for this particular surface and select it. The other options in the box are hopefully self-explanatory and should look familiar to the values in your old AlcScript options for the swim region.


I almost had half. But I was missing that with the region. I hope I can manage it tomorrow.
In Alabaster i have not a water surface that alowed you to see the ground. It is green and should be a little bit milky.
So i have a second plane under the reflection plane.

I don't believe anything else is necessary to get them working for you, but if you run into problems, please let me know so I can help you address them


That would be very nice. I would love to come back to it.

I'm not sure what you're asking about diving. Although there are some provisions for 3D swimming in Uru, it's not enabled in any version of the engine. Are you using a custom script to accomplish it? If so, then you may be able to use that same script with Korman, provided it isn't doing something that is specifically tied to Uru:CC (such as relying on the Offline KI code in some way). I would have to take a look at the script in order to help more, if this is the case.



Diving is a little bit trickery. I just tried it without script.

You have to imagine it that way. I think you know all that stuff better than me. But i need to explain my diving.

In Blender we have a swimdetect, a swimpool and watersurface.
So the swimdetect is the region, normaly a square, in what the Avatar swims.
The watersurface is the reflection zone without trianglemesh.
The swimpool is the part with the trianglemesh.

So i have subdivided the mesh and have pulled it down in some places, so that avatar dives.
For example, if he wants to dive into a cave.

But thes meshes are not alowed. Korman says always: please use a flat plane.

Further i have more swim detect and swim pool one above the other.

You swim in the first level, the mesh has a hole and you fall (dive) to the next level etc. To come out you have to swim to the border or something that bring you near the next level. Then you can run a short way and you go to the next level up to swim to the water surface.

It really looks like you are diving.
The regions musst be enough far from another. Becouse otherwise the avatar will get problems.
He then jumps very unhealthily as if he would constantly bump his head. :D

In Alababster i have many locations under the watersurfacce. Swiming fishes etc.
So I can not do without it.

The same answer applies to your question on the cloths and puzzles. As long as they're standard scripts, they should require little or no changes to work with Korman. There isn't a starter tutorial on how to hook them up yet, but the Python Node reference page and Logic Node page may help. You'll need to add the script to Korman that way, and then hook up the values and objects to it (similar to the list of parameters in the pythonfile portion of your old AlcScript).


That will certainly be a big challenge. But I will face her.
You know i always work with google translator, but i do it since 2010 and my english is a little bit better.
I now often understand it during the second time. In the past i have had to read it more times.

If I manage to convert AlabastersDepths, I will try to do it with all of my ages.
That is a lot of work, i know. And if anybody feel to help me with this, i would love that.
But i understand that we all have a lot to do and as you said all have there own project and there own engine.



Greetings
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Re: Water and Puzzles in Korman?

Postby Sirius » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:56 am

Dulcamara posted before me, so sorry if it feels like I'm repeating what she said :D

Deledrius wrote:I'm not sure what you're asking about diving.

Instead of making a flat "swimmable" mesh, you make one with a slope that goes down under the water. The engine believes you are still at the water's surface, while you are in fact below the water visual ;) This allows builders to make submarine caves, which is pretty neat since the engine doesn't originally support it.

Dulcamara, do you also have a problem with the water visual (the waveset), or just with swimming ? I wasn't sure if you needed help with the visuals too.
Swimming itself should still be possible with a non-flat plane, but it's likely Korman doesn't believe it possible ;) This can easily be fixed in Korman if required.

As for journey clothes and puzzles, I'm sure we can make those work too. But we will need someone to read the original scripts and make an equivalent for Korman. It's a bit of work, but definitely possible.
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Re: Water and Puzzles in Korman?

Postby Dulcamara » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:16 am

Dulcamara posted before me, so sorry if it feels like I'm repeating what she said :D



But it sounds definitifly better, how you say it.



Sirius wrote :
Dulcamara, do you also have a problem with the water visual (the waveset), or just with swimming ? I wasn't sure if you needed help with the visuals too.


I see no watersurface. And i can not swim. Fal in the deep through my waterfoodstep region LOL. But i think i missed the region group. I will look tomorrow.
As Deledrius wrote : found in the Water group. In the box labeled "Detector Region", click to browse for the swimming detector region you made for this particular surface and select it. The other options in the box are hopefully self-explanatory and should look familiar to the values in your old AlcScript options for the swim region.



Swimming itself should still be possible with a non-flat plane, but it's likely Korman doesn't believe it possible ;) This can easily be fixed in Korman if required.


That would be great.
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Re: Water and Puzzles in Korman?

Postby Deledrius » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:38 pm

Sirius wrote:Swimming itself should still be possible with a non-flat plane, but it's likely Korman doesn't believe it possible ;) This can easily be fixed in Korman if required.

This may indeed be the case. It is being looked into. :D

Thanks, both of you, for explaining and bringing this to our attention!


Edit: Sirius' guess is precisely the case here. It is possible, and Korman was being... overprotective. There will be a fix for this in the next version of Korman. Meanwhile, Dulcamara, I'll PM you with some instructions on how to patch your copy to gain this ability without needing to wait.
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Re: Water and Puzzles in Korman?

Postby Tsar Hoikas » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:05 am

To provide a little background, when I was adding the swim surface modifier (for swim regions), I was thinking that it would be useful if the modifier could be applied directly to a wave set. As you know, a waveset's geometry should never be flat and should conform to the bottom of the pool of water. If korman detects that a swim surface object is also a wave set (Water modifier), then it flattens the geometry at export time for the swim collider. For the other case, I poked around a bit in the CWE code, which implied that swimming surfaces needed to be flat. I didn't bother doing more than a cursory look and decided to just have korman error if a non-waveset swim surface was nonflat.

Upon receipt of this thread, I went back an reread the CWE swimming code a bit more thoroughly and saw that the assumption of a flat surface was incorrect. The engine determines the swim height before rendering each frame. Tested and verified that the nonflat surfaces work on CWE. The waveset behavior of flattening the swimming plane remains unchanged.
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Re: Water and Puzzles in Korman?

Postby Dulcamara » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:35 am

All who work on Korman did a great job. It is amazing. So thank you for your hard work to make agebuilding easyer for the future.
I still have problems understanding the engine becouse all is in english, but I think I will learn it over time.

Until then I would be glad about any help. So I still have the problem how to create my water.

In my older Blender i have had a watersurface(only for the waves) it is a plane without triangle mesh. That is the water who needs the alcscript. Where we see the waves.
Then i have a darker water. It is a plane too. That make the water a little bit creepy and deeper . It have no texture but green vertexpaint. You can not see to the ground. Also a plane without triangle mesh.
Further i have a Swim pool, that is the real swimable region. That i have subdivided and it is a triangle mesh so that I can pull down surfaces to dive.
And at last, i have a swim detect region. It is a region as a square.
It prevents the avatar from sinking when it jumps into the water from a higher altitude.


You see i have had 4 several objects in the past.

Now i think i need no swimpool. Becouse i slould make the watersurface to a swimsurface and give them waves.


After several attempts, I have now the watersurface as swimsurface and have them subdivided for diving.
I changed all the options in the box for texture waves to the values in "my" script. It is not realy mine. I think i found it in a tutorial and do not realy know what that all means. :oops: :oops:
But i can not see any waves. :( And if i want to dive i sink down. :shock: If i am jumping from a higher mountain, i sink down too. I only can swim if i go slowly to the water.

In the past it worked for me. I do not know if you have ever seen the water of Alabaster. It would be helpfully if you will see it, becouse then you would know what I'm talking about.

The darker plane (darker waterface without texture) is also converted. Die Color is ok.

In the moment i have 2 objects from 4

I think, i need the swim detect region. So that the avatar have a square in what he can dive. But i do not know how to include it :oops: .

Is it possible let the watersurface only as a plan and only for the waves.
And use the swim pool for the trianglemesh as the swimsurface? So as it was in the past :? :? :?

Maybe i have only change paramaters in the surface ????

Hope someone can help :oops:
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Re: Water and Puzzles in Korman?

Postby Deledrius » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:38 am

That's a lot of complicated details, but if I understand correctly, it sounds like you should put the Swimming Surface modifier in Korman onto what you called the "Swim pool", and on your "watersurface" you need to put the Geometry Waves modifier, which will accomplish the old "waveset" waves.

The water stuff in Uru is complicated, and I don't know for sure how you have it all built. Hopefully Hoikas, Doobes, or Sirius can clarify more on this, because I'm not sure.
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Re: Water and Puzzles in Korman?

Postby Sirius » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:42 am

Dulcamara wrote:I still have problems understanding the engine becouse all is in english, but I think I will learn it over time.

@ Deledrius and Hoikas: would adding localization support to Korman be possible at some point in the future ? It's not the top priority, but could be useful indeed.

I will have a look at the original Alabaster, and try to find the settings for Korman when I can.


Side note: it saddens me that Cyan never used geometric waves. Those look awesome.
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