Changes to Uru and Such [Split from "Four new ages for Uru"]

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Re: Four new ages for Uru

Postby Deledrius » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:35 pm

Christian Walther wrote:Activity seems to be mostly on Discord rather than the forum these days.

Unfortunately. You'd expect things to be done out in the open, but alas.
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Re: Four new ages for Uru

Postby Aloys » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:01 pm

Activity seems to be mostly on Discord rather than the forum these days.

Dammit. Kids and their new stuff.. >_>

(I don't like Discord)
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Re: Four new ages for Uru

Postby Deledrius » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:14 pm

Aloys wrote:(I don't like Discord)

Same. I have strong ethical problems with how they manipulated their current position.

If you want to chat with the GoW, we still use the open, accessible, non-spyware IRC. :D
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Re: Four new ages for Uru

Postby Aloys » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:28 am

I have strong ethical problems with how they manipulated their current position.

I don't know about that. I just don't like it when important discussions happen on a chat platform and then never make it into more visible places.
IRC/Discord/Slack/whatever are great platforms for quick chats, but the problem then is that often decisions are taken that aren't documented properly, and many people are left out of the loop. Even if you do log in there from time to time you just can't scroll all the way up to find out what happened. And since it is a real time system, you then have people who just can't be there at the time of discussion who are left out; and decisions are taken and enacted without them.
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Re: Four new ages for Uru

Postby Emor D'ni Lap » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:43 am

Aloys wrote:I don't know about that. I just don't like it when important discussions happen on a chat platform and then never make it into more visible places.
...
IRC/Discord/Slack/whatever are great platforms for quick chats, but the problem then is that often decisions are taken that aren't documented properly, and many people are left out of the loop. Even if you do log in there from time to time you just can't scroll all the way up to find out what happened. And since it is a real time system, you then have people who just can't be there at the time of discussion who are left out; and decisions are taken and enacted without them.

Agreed, Aloys.
Case in point: in a recent discussion on IRC, I was directed to look in a Discord channel for an announcement by Chogon, a policy change that's really a big deal in my opinion. It should be pinned, framed and behind glass somewhere...but it's buried back on October 29:
Chogon wrote:A couple of answers to questions:
1) Along with being able to modify MOULa assets, you can also use MOULa assets (modified or not) in your own Ages (such as textures, sounds, models, etc.)
2) Fan shards can host the MOULa data set. Before that can officially happen, I need to replace the Peter Gabriel song with something else

(point 1) is an expansion of permissions stated elsewhere before; but point 2) is unique to this Discord post, to my knowledge)
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Re: Four new ages for Uru

Postby Korovev » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:59 pm

It’s mentioned here:
Chogon wrote:The reason that this song was pulled from the MOULa file servers was to pave the way for shards outside of Cyan to be able to host MOULa files on their file servers. Having outside of Cyan Worlds copyrighted materials would have complicated that.
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Re: Four new ages for Uru

Postby Deledrius » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:54 pm

Aloys wrote:
I have strong ethical problems with how they manipulated their current position.

I don't know about that. I just don't like it when important discussions happen on a chat platform and then never make it into more visible places.
IRC/Discord/Slack/whatever are great platforms for quick chats, but the problem then is that often decisions are taken that aren't documented properly, and many people are left out of the loop. Even if you do log in there from time to time you just can't scroll all the way up to find out what happened. And since it is a real time system, you then have people who just can't be there at the time of discussion who are left out; and decisions are taken and enacted without them.

I strongly agree. I've been pushing hard against Discord being used (in general but specifically for things like this) but the vast majority of people involved in making the decisions don't seem to have the same reservations.

Emor D'ni Lap wrote:Agreed, Aloys.
Case in point: in a recent discussion on IRC, I was directed to look in a Discord channel for an announcement by Chogon, a policy change that's really a big deal in my opinion. It should be pinned, framed and behind glass somewhere...but it's buried back on October 29:
Chogon wrote:A couple of answers to questions:
1) Along with being able to modify MOULa assets, you can also use MOULa assets (modified or not) in your own Ages (such as textures, sounds, models, etc.)
2) Fan shards can host the MOULa data set. Before that can officially happen, I need to replace the Peter Gabriel song with something else

(point 1) is an expansion of permissions stated elsewhere before; but point 2) is unique to this Discord post, to my knowledge)

This annoyed me too. The forum posts that were made were not nearly as useful. While it was very beneficial to have some realtime discussion and feedback directly on the issue when it happened, the main information shouldn't have been made in a chat (and I complained at the time, too). The forum posts that were made did not encompass the same information.

And by now we've thoroughly derailed melvin's thread. Sorry about that melvin. Hopefully this can be spun off into a new thread properly.
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Re: Four new ages for Uru

Postby Emor D'ni Lap » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:49 pm

Korovev wrote:It’s mentioned here:
Chogon wrote:The reason that this song was pulled from the MOULa file servers was to pave the way for shards outside of Cyan to be able to host MOULa files on their file servers. Having outside of Cyan Worlds copyrighted materials would have complicated that.

Korov', I apologize for putting a fine point on this, but:
There's a big difference between saying "we're doing something to pave the way for X to happen" and saying "green light: X has happened".
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Re: Changes to Uru and Such [Split from "Four new ages for U

Postby Sirius » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:29 am

My own reason for preferring forums over realtime discussions is that I can take as much time as I want to write a good reply. Much easier since English isn't my mother tongue, and it gives me time to think things through, cool down, write a wayy too long post then rewrite it in a more readable version, etc. Or just not answer at all if I'm in the middle of something else...

(Barely related, but how the heck do you keep up with Cyan's announcement on MOULa's forums ? The "view active topic" button doesn't work, and I generally check the six subforums only if the last poster's name changed since the last time I checked there... For instance I completely missed Chogon's announcement about allowing modifications to Cyan's assets until someone actually mentioned it in a non-sticky thread... Now I understand why Reddit only ever allows two stickied threads at a time.)

As far as linking rules on Deep Island go, I know Uru's instancing is complex enough that linking to sub-Ages like Eder Delin is impossible from an Age that is not the parent Age. And fan-Ages are simply public to avoid complex instancing altogether. D'Lanor's dynamic book template pushed people towards using the xLinkMgr instead of linking responders, which is a good thing. Since most Age builders don't want to mess with Python scripts, I decided to make a generic version with the xSimpleBook script, which also relies on the xLinkMgr - which also means people were not always redistributing a nearly-identical but not upgradable linking book script with their Age.

But yeah, I'm curious to know how instancing of fan-Ages on MOULa will be handled, or how the fan-Ages Nexus will know which Ages it can link to.
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Re: Changes to Uru and Such [Split from "Four new ages for U

Postby Tsar Hoikas » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:10 am

Sirius wrote:As far as linking rules on Deep Island go, I know Uru's instancing is complex enough that linking to sub-Ages like Eder Delin is impossible from an Age that is not the parent Age.


Unless you know the age's instance UUID ;)

The linking rule you want to use in MOUL such that multiplayer works in a reasonable way is the sub age link. That's assuming there's only one way into the age, of course. Life gets more difficult if you have multiple ways to get to your age... Another argument for "let the server decide where the player goes," I think.
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