Expanding Jennifer's Classroom?

[Jennifer_P]

Hm, I think you've got a good idea there, guys; after a certain number of pages has been reached in a thread one does begin to wonder, "Is it worth the effort to jump in?" And I can see why people wouldn't comment on a lesson back in page 3. So yeah, something should be done about the present situation so that new learners aren't hindered.

So for the two options for fixing things:

Move each lesson to a separate topic under Builders > Tutorials
Create a Classroom subforum under Builders and move each lesson to a separate topic there

I'd go for a subforum in the Tutorials section myself, and give it the name "Live Classroom for Blender Learners! " (smiley and exclamation point optional, hehe) This would be for several reasons; first, I wouldn't want to clog up the Builder's forum with an extra subforum.
Then too, if the lessons were stickied in the tutorial section, I'd feel obligated to be neat and tidy since it's a group space; but unfortunately my teaching style is kind of messy...Mainly because I like to throw in stuff like the puzzle design article for fun or just because it's useful knowledge. Lessons on topics like color theory or how .png files are different from .jpg files aren't really tutorials so much as good reading material...

And thank you everybody for the kind words; we should all be very proud of our learners--it's their enthusiasm and perseverance that's allowing them to do so well.

I have got quite far with JP's classroom but I am hungry for more. Especially how to make objects without using the premade objects that we are given. I have being trying to make New Zealand Flax like leaves with twists and turn and I am getting nowhere fast lol. I don't expect this straigt away but just giving ideas. Manipulating cones aswell.

Hm, I would try using the transform operations directly on the vertices of the objects in Edit mode (not all the vertices; just take an icosphere, select half the top half of the vertices, and then try scaling, rotating, and dragging them, with and without proportional edit falloff on. Usually you'd be using alpha textures (partially transparent textures) to do leaves so that you don't have to do so much modeling, but that's going to have to wait for awhile while we cover other more necessary topics. So much to learn, so little time!

Oh yeah, and each lesson could be a different thread? So anyone could post about any of them without interupting the later lessons and people on later lessons don't have to read through questions on basic things they already know. I think that would be a good idea

Eh, don't worry about interrupting the later lessons, Ehren; there are people starting all the time and we're all at different points. Nobody will mind it if you have a question on an earlier lesson 'cause half the people are doing the same earlier lessons anyway.

You mean, have a Wiki page for the lesson itself, and have a corresponding forum topic for questions/troubleshooting? There could be a link on the Wiki page to the topic, so that people taking the lesson can go right to the correct topic.

Hm, I don't know about that; it would seem like it would be more convenient to have just one window open with the lesson and the issues which other people had with it, rather than two windows open, one with the wiki page and the other with the issues people had. Then too, if people find the lessons on the wiki and attempt them there without going to the forums, I suspect that they would be hesitant to ask for help if they get stuck, since they wouldn't really "know" the people they're asking for help. Not to mention that the tutorials aren't really sufficient to stand on their own; they won't work, in fact, unless a person has a mouse with a wheel and at least two buttons. And then, most relevantly, there's the laziness factor. Even if I didn't have exams right now, I would still probably be too lazy to tweak the wiki lessons every time I made a change to the forum lessons (not to mention that I've been having a problem editing the wiki anyway). I do appreciate the offer of help, though. Well, how about if we just put a link to each individual lesson in the wiki, while keeping the lessons as separate forum posts?

[Robert The Rebuilder]

Thanks for replying, Jennifer!

In that case, let's drop the Wiki choice and stick to these three options:

• Leave the forum topic as is
• Move each lesson to a separate topic under Builders > Tutorials
• Create a Live 'Classroom for Blender Learners' subforum and move each lesson to a separate topic there

Would one of the moderators or someone with write-access to the Administration > Submitted Proposals forum please post a new proposal with these three options, with the poll to end a week from today?

[Chacal]

Robert, if I may add my 2 cents, this is only a poll on a specific forum topic, it isn't about the Guild, so maybe you don't have to go through all these complicated steps.
Let's just start a poll right here and go ahead.

[Trylon]

Robert, if I may add my 2 cents, this is only a poll on a specific forum topic, it isn't about the Guild, so maybe you don't have to go through all these complicated steps.
Let's just start a poll right here and go ahead.

Yeah, this is not really guild-wide, so no proposals are neccesary for this.

[Tsar Hoikas]

Process of making decisions
For minor decisions, influencing only a small portion (under 20-30%) of the guild functioning, it is sufficient that the majority of the Councilors agree on the issue.

This falls under that category. You must follow the rules no matter how much you despise them.

Now as for my opinion. We have a wiki. There is no need for tutorials to be posted on the forum; however, discussion on the forum about tutorials is a great idea. As such, I think it would be best if the "Tutorials" area is locked and this "Building" Area be used for both generic questions and discussions on tutorials. Someone will need to volunteer to migrate content from Jenifer's Classroom Thread to the wiki, as I agree it has gotten entirely too big. For reference, it could be split into multiple topics in the locked tutorials area.

[BAD]

I agree with Hoikas. I don't disagree with what you guys want to do, it is just that you don't need to go that far to get it done. Matter of fact a simple PM to one of the councilors would have got the ball rolling on setting this up properly.

[Jennifer_P]

There is no need for tutorials to be posted on the forum; however, discussion on the forum about tutorials is a great idea. As such, I think it would be best if the "Tutorials" area is locked and this "Building" Area be used for both generic questions and discussions on tutorials. Someone will need to volunteer to migrate content from Jenifer's Classroom Thread to the wiki, as I agree it has gotten entirely too big. For reference, it could be split into multiple topics in the locked tutorials area.

Hm...Well, the one thing that I really do need is to have the lessons and the (ongoing) discussion on them be together, on the forum somewhere. Whether this is as separate threads that are grouped together somehow or as one big thread, whatever, just as long as the lessons and the discussion remain together. I'm very serious about this though; I'd rather have the thread be left alone entirely than to have the tutorials be separated from their discussions.
I also think that it's a baaad idea to put the tutorials, instead of links to them, up on the wiki. They'll be outdated in a few months, and then the people who use them instead of the up-to-date ones on the forum will be in trouble...

[Tsar Hoikas]

There is no need for tutorials to be posted on the forum; however, discussion on the forum about tutorials is a great idea. As such, I think it would be best if the "Tutorials" area is locked and this "Building" Area be used for both generic questions and discussions on tutorials. Someone will need to volunteer to migrate content from Jenifer's Classroom Thread to the wiki, as I agree it has gotten entirely too big. For reference, it could be split into multiple topics in the locked tutorials area.

Hm...Well, the one thing that I really do need is to have the lessons and the (ongoing) discussion on them be together, on the forum somewhere. Whether this is as separate threads that are grouped together somehow or as one big thread, whatever, just as long as the lessons and the discussion remain together. I'm very serious about this though; I'd rather have the thread be left alone entirely than to have the tutorials be separated from their discussions.
I also think that it's a baaad idea to put the tutorials, instead of links to them, up on the wiki. They'll be outdated in a few months, and then the people who use them instead of the up-to-date ones on the forum will be in trouble...

Create a discussion thread for each tutorial and link to it from the wiki page. The wiki is editable by all while forum posts can only be edited by their author and the moderators, thus wiki pages are more easily updated than forum posts, so your final argument is invalid.

[Jennifer_P]

Create a discussion thread for each tutorial and link to it from the wiki page. The wiki is editable by all while forum posts can only be edited by their author and the moderators, thus wiki pages are more easily updated than forum posts, so your final argument is invalid.

Well, I'll grant you that wiki pages are more easily edited by everyone, but not everybody will edit them. And in the end, I suspect that I would be left with the job of editing. But, it's easier for me to edit a forum post than a wiki, any day. With a forum, you just post when you want to put something up. If you want to edit, you click the edit button and you edit. It's simple, it's easy, it's convenient, it's familiar.
Then too, if the tutorials are put on the wiki page and the discussions are kept on the forums, here's what I think will result:
Shy, lazy, busy, intimidated, and overconfident people may avoid visiting the forum discussions mentioned on the wiki for various reasons. Thus they miss out on bonding with other guild members and learners and getting personal support, correction, help, encouragement and a place to share their work with others. And the end result of missing out on those things is that the odds of successfully completing the tutorials and learning Blender are diminished. I strongly believe that having the discussions with the lessons is a factor that increases the survival rate of Blender learners.

[Chacal]

The matter is settled, then. It's Jennifer's classroom, so she chooses what she's most comfortable with.