MO;UL distribution not allowed

[Chacal]

So, instead of saying that I am blindly following the law... rather say that I am following my internal sense of what is right.

Actually that is what I said, Lontahv. I agree 100% with you on this matter. This is more a question of principles than a question of law.

[Lontahv]

This is a moral question that I could go insane trying to explain.

~Lontahv

[Justintime9]

well... isn't it immoral to steal? and if cyan considers it stealing, then, wouldn't it be immoral no matter what, whether people believe it so or not?

[andylegate]

When a dictator keeps all the food from his people of his country, so that they have to steal it to survive........is that immoral?

A BIG differance than what we are talking about to be sure. But it goes to show you, just because it's a law, doesn't make it right.

Take a look at all the laws that Hitler put in to effect against the Jews. Just because it's a law, does not make it right.

However.....I do think that copyright laws are not up there with those examples. Just showing how the world is again never black and white at times.

[Lontahv]

I agree with you Andy.

I (me) think that it's wrong to distribute Cyan content freely--this has nothing to do with the laws, this has to do with my sense of decency.

Follow your self, unless you are worried about going to jail... then follow the laws or secretly do what you think it right. Since this is not a huge thing... and jail is not really involved here, I think we can safely follow what we think is best.

Just try to think about something other than your own ease when it comes to Cyan-stuff distribution, every time you do that, you're hurting Cyan.

~Lontahv

[Whilyam]

When a dictator keeps all the food from his people of his country, so that they have to steal it to survive........is that immoral?

A BIG differance than what we are talking about to be sure. But it goes to show you, just because it's a law, doesn't make it right.

Take a look at all the laws that Hitler put in to effect against the Jews. Just because it's a law, does not make it right.

However.....I do think that copyright laws are not up there with those examples. Just showing how the world is again never black and white at times.

Godwin's Law has now been fulfilled. The topic has now outlived its usefulness and will now be euthanized

[andylegate]

ROFLMBO!! Whilyam, hehehe!

[Chacal]

You guys must have some Canadian ancestor!

[Nalates]

Well... For a couple days the UU Authorization Hack posted on UO was debated. Thread locked now.

Copying Cyan files (any copyrighted material) seems legally pretty clear cut to me. The gray area is all about how far Cyan will let us go... They seem to have some conflicting goals and Cyan saying where they draw the line would jeopardize some of their rights. So, they don't and we have to infer where.

That is part of the problem with Dickins posts and web site and the stir it caused.

It appears that on pure technical legal he can't do what he did, reverse eng, change and publish how to change with some of his files apparently being modified Cyan files (I could be wrong about that). However he has done no more reverse engineering than I did when trying to find the Thanksgiving Switches for Bevin in post Prologue days. His tools are nothing more than what many of the community have built and published.

My problem is more from a point of civility. I think he crossed a line that Cyan has asked us not to cross. I believe many of us are far past the legal limit but not past Cyan’s limit. If Cyan were to so choose, they would have legal grounds on which to act to stop the publishing of the UU Auth Hack. (New Digital Rights limits speech)

One of the things I think JustinTime9 has not picked up on is; that once a matter is brought to Cyan’s attention, to protect their IP rights they must act to some extent, whither they want to or not. I’m not picking on JustinTIme9, but in some future court case someone could use JustinTIme9’s informing Cyan as an example of their knowledge of a use of Cyan’s IP. If Cyan had/has not acted on it, then someone would have evidence of Cyan allowing the IP to fall into the public domain.

So, there is more at stake when one plays in the gray area. It is beyond what is simply legal. Now it is a matter of can we play NICE. If we can, the trust between Cyan and the community grows. If not, and I think Dickins web site is NOT PLAYING NICE, it pushes Cyan into reducing their trust in the community.

I have no problem with JustinTIme9 contacting Cyan. I can’t know what was in his heart or why acted. I’ll cut him slack. Dickins too, has a right to do what he did, as we each do. He explained his viewpoint and I'll give him that he is rational. I disagree but I can't unequivocally show that he is wrong because of the gray area that seems to exist. Yeah, technically I think I can make each my points legally, but that is not really the point in forums. But, at some point Cyan may or may not decide he went too far and take action (Cyan has already commented on Dickins at UO). I agree with Cyan, I think Dickins timing is really bad.

I’m very proud that the Myst community in general has a mature and enlightened approach to how they treat Cyan’s IP. We seem to do a decent job of policing ourselves. In Dickins case, I would like to see him take the site down until Cyan and GT get their thing resolved.

[BAD]

I disagree. I have dealt with Cyan in a trusting way from both ends of the deal. I wasn't satisfied with how it turned out.

I won't say I think what DickEns did was morally correct, but I don't think what he did was wrong.

I think if this community was really enlightened they would accept things better, not hide behind Cyan, shunning something they don't fully understand.

What Dickens did was probably in response to what people were clamoring for less than a month ago. People were asking for UU back. He gave it back to us, and now everyone is freaking out because he found a legal loophole.

This community has to figure out what it really wants before it can move on.