New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

General debates and discussion about the Guild of Writers and Age creation

New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

Postby GPNMilano » Sat May 17, 2008 3:31 am

There's a new interview with Rand from the SpokesmanReview, discussing the Guild of Writers specifically, and the direction Cyan is going with getting the rights to Uru back from Turner, and the possible future of the game itself if they get those rights back.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/txt/


The gist of the Interview being that they're still in negotiations for the rights to Uru, and Rand approves of our work, and actually wants to give the GOW control to make the content for Uru once they get the rights back.
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Re: New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

Postby Trylon » Sat May 17, 2008 5:50 am

Very nice interview.
I recommend evryone to listen to it, as it's only about 2 minutes long, and gives quite a bit of insight.
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Re: New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

Postby andylegate » Sat May 17, 2008 6:21 am

Yah, I think the interview just reafirms what many of us thought and knew anyway: Cyan wants us to be able to create new content for the game and to develop it further, they are just entangled in legalities in a business sense that they have to follow right now in order to see this happen.

I think we'll see "baby steps" first, things that they (Cyan) can do for us that won't hurt them or bother anyone else, but as Rand said Turner doesn't have this on the front of the stove right now, and they have to wait on them of course. But in the mean time lets see what the future holds.
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Re: New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

Postby GPNMilano » Sat May 17, 2008 7:15 am

One of the things I am most curious about is, if Cyan gets the rights to Uru back, and they want to give us control of the game, creation of new content would lie with us, how would it work? Would they open up Uru on their servers, how would the new content get to them, if the vault for the game will be on the server, how would that info get there. Will a new ULM have to be made to upload and download the new ages/content. Will the story of the game be created by us or Cyan or a collaboration of the fans working with Cyan. If Cyan is going to give us access to their age creation tools, does that mean we won't be using blender anymore to make our ages, and instead have to all spend money to get 3DSMax. These are questions I'm sure Cyan is discussing as well. What are they going to give us to do this, just the tools, or as Rand said the source code and engine for the game itself?

If they give us the game engine and the source code for it, will the programmers out there be up to the task of retooling that engine to fix the flaws in it that caused problems in MOUL. Who will play the NPC's, Cyan staff, or will some fans have to become DRC members and Bahro, and Yeesha.
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Re: New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

Postby Jamey » Sat May 17, 2008 12:06 pm

Based on what I heard in the interview, Rand wants to get the rights back from Turner so they can turn over the game to the fans to a certain extent as Rand said. What he wants to do is still let Cyan release new content, and during the intermissions where there is no new content coming out, fan content can be released to keep everyone interested and coming back into Uru to see what might be new.

So Rand/Cyan wants the fans to have user created content freedom to a certain extent, while Cyan still releases their content


Sounds like the way Uru was meant to be to me :D
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Re: New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

Postby BenB » Sat May 17, 2008 2:57 pm

Jamey, I just replayed that interview, and nowhere in Rand's comments do I hear anything about Cyan continuing to participate in creating new URU content.
In fact, he seems to say several things to the contrary, that his hopes - at least for the present - are to re-open the cavern by convincing Turner that the game has commercial viability through new community-created content, then simply hand things over to the agebuilders wholesale, in comments such as:
"If we can't update it, because we just can't afford it, because we've let people go, then at least we can keep it alive - by giving it...and letting the community do it."


His handing-things-over "to some extent" clause seems aimed at Turner, intended to defuse any sense of Turner not being in actual control of rights.

SO, I'm going to bring up a topic here that I haven't heard discussed so far, one that I suspect may raise some hackles.

In the hypothetical, possibly farfetched, event that Cyan gets Turner to agree to the notion of re-opening MO:UL to include community-created content, agewriters would find themselves in a situation where
A. they'd be sustaining the dream of many years, to contribute directly to both the Myst/URU legend and to the MO:UL community,
but on the other hand,
B. directly or indirectly, they'd be bringing cash to Turner/GameTap, with no financial reward for their generally enormous investments of time, or for their hard-earned skills or for their artistic vision.

I know that many here have busted their butts, on agebuilding and on the toolsets to enable it, over many years with no expectation of financial reward.
But this seems like one of those subjects that is better discussed before rather than after the (yes, farfetched) hypothesis becomes fact.
Last edited by BenB on Sat May 17, 2008 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

Postby Nek'rahm » Sat May 17, 2008 3:08 pm

The only thing being... and I've brought this up before...

Cyan cannot feasibly give the users COMPLETE control of the game. It just isn't possible.

Okay, I know there are some out there who disagree with me, but hear me through. If Cyan gave EVERYONE tools to make Ages, and fans could input their Ages into the game in order to progress storyline:

A) How would it be channeled? Cyan isn't going to waste months on end looking and rooting through every Age someone thinks is good enough to put into the game. And I don't think any Guild, not even us, would relish the idea of taking that job. If anyone can pick up tools and use them, we'd likely get hundreds of Ages within a month or two, and we'd have to decide which, if any, meet Uru standards.

B) Storyline. Alright, I know there are many out their who want Uru to have a killer storyline that also ties into the deep past the D'ni have. I also know some out there want Uru to have no storyline, and just be a virtual sandbox to put Ages into and get them criticized by friends and peers.

Both ways have their arguments, but the latter is nearly impossible. Cyan has spent nearly all the money they had on Uru, Plasma and the corresponding parts. They're not going to just "give" us away the game. It would most certainly put them into bankrupcy from all the money they've wasted, and then there wouldn't even BE a Myst to continue. There would be no Cyan input, there would be no channeled way of progressing things, and even more importantly the game and series would dwindle into obscurity until only the Guilds and a few passerbys would even know of Uru's existence. It would destroy the dreams, expectations, and hard work of hundreds if not thousands of people.

Cyan needs to be able to be in control of things at a certain level. Of course Fans need to input their work, but it needs to be focused. Let's say that we have 100 people who've been working on Ages. All of them are in the GoW and want Cyan to see these Ages. The Guild should choose every month which people should be of a high-enough degree of skill and understanding of the tools and D'ni/Myst game structure to have their Ages sent directly to Cyan to be tested for being put into Uru. Now, I'm not saying this means no-one can make content. I'm saying that those who want to contribute have to work for it, not make 20 or so two-room Ages that look like the insides of a rubix cube.

There has to be an equal degree of power and influence. The Guilds being of a slightly-less-than-equal standing with Cyan Worlds. Think of it, games like WoW, EVE, RuneScape and such are controlled by Gamers. But they aren't at the point where only the gamers decide the fate of the game. Someone has to have things neat, tidy, in-check and in an orderly way overall if the game is to survive, grow in fanbase, become acclaimed by many and be a truly great game.

Cyan is working on this, and they want us to help, but the people who say that we should control EVERYTHING aren't being realistic. It's just not possible if we want Uru to survive.
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Re: New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

Postby GPNMilano » Sat May 17, 2008 5:10 pm

Nek'rahm wrote:Cyan cannot feasibly give the users COMPLETE control of the game. It just isn't possible.


Nek'rahm wrote:Both ways have their arguments, but the latter is nearly impossible. Cyan has spent nearly all the money they had on Uru, Plasma and the corresponding parts. They're not going to just "give" us away the game. It would most certainly put them into bankrupcy from all the money they've wasted, and then there wouldn't even BE a Myst to continue. There would be no Cyan input, there would be no channeled way of progressing things, and even more importantly the game and series would dwindle into obscurity until only the Guilds and a few passerbys would even know of Uru's existence. It would destroy the dreams, expectations, and hard work of hundreds if not thousands of people.


Nek'rahm, After listening through that interview a few times, I have to just say, it sounds like Rand is saying just that. They're telling Turner at this point that the best thing for them to do, is release the rights of the game, to the extent that the game can continue, with not them running it, or Cyan but the community.

"We're trying to get those rights back, we're trying to tell Turner that maybe the best bet for them to make any money in the future is to keep it alive, and the best way to keep it alive is to give it to the people to a certain extent." - Rand

"So you're really thinking that if you can get the rights back that it would be more beneficial for Cyan to just let the community continue the development for you?"

"Beneficial in the sense that things that aren't updated die. And if we can't update it, because we just afford it, because we let people go, the least we can do is keep it alive, all the work, the effort, and technology we put into, at least we can keep it alive by giving it, by letting the community do it."

"So that's, that's really something an option you're telling Turner about"

"Yeah, yeah, there's alot of variation in that option, giving away is a very broad term, there's alot of stuff that can be defined, the small tools, the larger tools, to the entire game engine to the source code. Those are things we have to decide to what extent we give away"

Talking about releasing the source code and game engine for Uru to the fans as a feasible option, and to what extent that those things will be given, everything he said in that part of the interview, points to the fact that Cyan seriously wants to turn over control of the game, not to themselves, not to turner, but to us. That we shall run the game, update the game with our own content, and keep the game alive, at this juncture, until it is viable to actually make money.

The tools are one thing, but discussing letting the community have access to source code and game engine information, the stuff that trully does run the game, thats some serious stuff. No game company I can think of has ever suggested publically before, that they want to let the fans run their game, and take over creation of the content and maintaining the game.

As to how that would work, well, the Guilds have already been set up, The whole point of the Maintainers is to investigate the safety of an age. If this were to happen, I envision that we as the writers would create the ages, the Guild of Maintainers, would then be in charge of taking those ages, and deciding which ones are "safe" enough to release. That being the caliber of the age, the stability of it, bug work and all that jazz.

I honestly believe if this is going to happen, if this option becomes a reality, the Guild system that has started is probably the best feasible option both IC and OOC to run this thing,

Not to mention that we have to take into consideration the fact that we wouldn't be using the PyPrp anymore, nor Blender, we would now be using the same tools that Cyan uses, those tools are already set up to make ages, probably in a similar fashion than the PyPrp, whereas we can only add footstep sounds, and other limited regions, and have to alcscript alot of stuff like the animations ect. Cyan's tools are more than likely already designed to add those things into an age, and point to the files, much like we add footstep regions.

So alot of the stress of programing things like the PyPrp like plasmashop, will be a thing of the past. Now instead the programmers will have their hand at updating the game engine so that the game runs smoother, less lag, less bugs, and basically make it a working engine that can support large numbers of people in one place without server crashes. This way in the future, if Uru takes off yet again, and Cyan can step in and generate new content with us, things will be at the point that the problems, the little things that put a wedge into uru's future like server crashes and bugs and lag, those things will be gone enough that they can focus not on just keeping 24hr customer support and making sure the whole thing doesn't blow up, but instead spend the money coming in on letting the game continue officially with new content created by them. If it comes to that point again.
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Re: New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

Postby Jamey » Sat May 17, 2008 9:04 pm

As Rand said himself:

"We're trying to get those rights back, we're trying to tell Turner that maybe the best bet for them to make any money in the future is to keep it alive, and the best way to keep it alive is to give it to the people to a certain extent." - Rand

"So you're really thinking that if you can get the rights back that it would be more beneficial for Cyan to just let the community continue the development for you?"

"Beneficial in the sense that things that aren't updated die. And if we can't update it, because we just afford it, because we let people go, the least we can do is keep it alive, all the work, the effort, and technology we put into, at least we can keep it alive by giving it, by letting the community do it."

"So that's, that's really something an option you're telling Turner about"

"Yeah, yeah, there's alot of variation in that option, giving away is a very broad term, there's a lot of stuff that can be defined, the small tools, the larger tools, to the entire game engine to the source code. Those are things we have to decide to what extent we give away"

What I underlined proved that Cyan does NOT want to give the game fully away for complete community control, but give it away to an EXTENT, meaning that Cyan still wants to participate in making content WITH THE COMMUNITY. I honestly think if Cyan gave 100% of the game away, it would not be nearly as good without Cyan content, because look at it this way; if the community has 100% of the game, we get only user created content and we would be basically on our own, while if we got it to a CERTAIN EXTENT as Rand said he wanted, then we would not only be able to release our content, but we would also get Cyan content coming out as well to the community.

In conclusion, Cyan wants to give the game to the community to a CERTAIN EXTENT as Rand said, not 100% as some may have believed. Rand said it himself...So I really don't think it gets more official than that... :?
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Re: New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

Postby theclam » Sat May 17, 2008 10:22 pm

I'd be interested in knowing whether Cyan is looking into how user created content could be handled without requiring the rights to their Uru content.
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