GoW-only tool?

[belford]

From Cyan's roadmap:

Release of the 3DS Max Plasma plugins for creating MORE content. Release of the source for the plugin (only) to the Guild of Writers. This will allow for the easier creation of fan created tools as well as being able to use what Cyan used for creating Myst Online content.

Now, I see the primary aim here: for the 3DS Max tool to serve as documentation and sample code for the GoW toolset. That's great -- that's a form of what I asked for yesterday. And since PyPRP is open-source, that means the information will be filtering out to where everybody can use it.

However, it still raises the *immediate* question: what does it mean for Cyan to hand something "only to the Guild of Writers"? Right now, the Guild of Writers is everybody who drops by this forum and says hi. (And I would hate to see that change!) So, as written, they're giving the 3DS Max tool to everybody. I'm pretty sure that's not what they meant. :)

Is Cyan expecting us to institute a formal GoW membership process with NDA? Or are they going to wind up giving the 3DS Max tool to a specific committee (the PyPRP developers) and making an agreement with them?

This is a question which needs to sorted out. I'm hoping Cyan takes questions from Guild representatives at tomorrow's event.

(My personal feeling is that I'd rather Cyan had a private relationship with the PyPRP team, and left the GoW to define itself in a completely inclusive and open way. Those of you who listened to me back in the early days of the Guilds will not be surprised at this. :)

(I have the same concerns about the GoMa and the "methods and processes for testing fan created MORE content". There are so many ways that could rebound on the Maintainers as an organization -- and I will always maintain that the way to avoid power struggles is to *disavow power*.)

[BAD]

Why would you want to restrict peoples ability to contribute to the game?

[Nynaveve]

(I have the same concerns about the GoMa and the "methods and processes for testing fan created MORE content". There are so many ways that could rebound on the Maintainers as an organization -- and I will always maintain that the way to avoid power struggles is to *disavow power*.)

I don't want to sound like a snooty Maintainer here, but I'm at a loss as to why I keep seeing this sentiment all over. What is the problem? Why does no one want to let the GoMa have any responsibility here? Anything we do will be through Cyan's guidance otherwise it won't work. If we don't do what Cyan asks of us, they can just push us to the sidelines and do things another way. I am just feeling a bit insulted for my Guild that everyone seems to think we shouldn't be involved in the way we are meant to be.

[Tsar Hoikas]

I don't want to sound like a snooty Maintainer here, but I'm at a loss as to why I keep seeing this sentiment all over. What is the problem? Why does no one want to let the GoMa have any responsibility here? Anything we do will be through Cyan's guidance otherwise it won't work. If we don't do what Cyan asks of us, they can just push us to the sidelines and do things another way. I am just feeling a bit insulted for my Guild that everyone seems to think we shouldn't be involved in the way we are meant to be.

I don't think that the issue lies with the Guild of Maintainers; rather, it's that some people don't understand that they cannot be part of everything, so, in response, they want to get rid of any possibility of things happening behind their backs. Which is understandable given this community.

Just IMHO.

[BAD]

I think (and always thought) that the GOMa would act as beta testers for fan content creation. Nothing more, nothing less.

If the Maintainers are given some kind of power over whether an age gets put on a MORE (I guess we can call it?) Tthat's fine with me too. If Cyan wants them to do it, why should anyone be upset by that?

However, I don't think (nor do I believe the maintainers think) that they will be overlords of fan content. If someone wants to make a buggy mess of an age with "KISS RULES" written all over it, than they have the right to make it and play it in there OWN offline game.

[Lontahv]

I hope the Maintainers don't approve all their own ages.

See, AndyLegate can get special status (he can be the exception since he's spent most of his time on the GoW forums ).

But I don't want every old maintainer and cartographer and greeter coming here and wanting to get the MaxPlugin source and spread it around the net.

I think letting every GoW person get the the MaxPlugin source is a HUGE mistake (there are shady jerks here at the GoW too. ). I hope that Cyan meant something like: "Everyone who has a real use and merit and can actually program and has sent an email to us and has had a background check can get the plugin's source in branded with their name (to get rid of people who would distribute the source)."

I feel like the best thing (for now) is for the PyPrp devs to get the source. We are a pretty trustworthy crew (we haven't been spreading around stuff about plasma... at least not huge stuff). And also we have a reason to get the source ("PyPrp: Power for Young People who don't have money to Realistically buy max for use with the cyan-Plugin") ok, looky (kind of demented but...), the acronym works.

This is not meant to be a direct message to Cyan, just something for the GoW to think about.

[Vamp]

Actually, you can get a cracked version of 3D Studio Max from a torrent site if so desired.

Sure, it's a hack. Question is, what isn't?

EDIT: I'd also like to add that every Writer on this board can get the hack and it wouldn't really matter. Reason being that a) the ages are going to be screened anyways for mature/inappropriate content and b) You have a plug-in. So? That doesn't mean all the hard work is going to do itself! You need experience with this sort of stuff, and if you can prove that you have said experience then, in my book, you've earned it!

[BAD]

How does hiding that info helps anyone? Any Tom, Dick or Harry from other places wouldn't know what to do with the plugin source code.

It seems to me that you guys are saying we shouldn't let just anyone get their hands on a rubiks cube, they may bludgeon someone to death with it.

If Cyan wants to open source the plugin, that is there business. They may (ohmygodno!) be looking to see if anyone tries to improve on it. I know it's hard to believe since Cyan employees are programing gods who never make mistakes or have faults.

SO once again I ask, Why do you want to hinder people's ability to make Uru and the tools for age creation better?

[Chacal]

I think letting every GoW person get the the MaxPlugin source is a HUGE mistake (there are shady jerks here at the GoW too.

Why? What harm could they possibly do with the source code for a very specialized plug-in for a design tool that costs $4000 for a game with minuscule popularity?
Quoting BAD, why would you want to restrict peoples ability to contribute to the game?

I feel like the best thing (for now) is for the PyPrp devs to get the source.

AH yes, maybe this is the reason.
The thing with exclusive clubs, you see, is I want to get in, and once in I want to keep everyone else out.
Or maybe I'm reading you incorrectly.

If your motivation is security, remember that obscurity is not security. Hiding information has never worked, will never work.

I don't think that the issue lies with the Guild of Maintainers; rather, it's that some people don't understand that they cannot be part of everything, so, in response, they want to get rid of any possibility of things happening behind their backs. Which is understandable given this community.

True. That, and a natural wariness about the thousand things that could possibly go wrong. Two words: "homeowner associations".
Nynaneve, it's nothing against GoMa itself. You guys will be the first to see my Ages for beta testing.

[Lontahv]

Uh, well... er... do that if ya want to.


Also, to respond to my post and the previous posts a little better:

I think that there should be "professional" content (from the GoW). And then when anyone outside the guild (Andy for instance) the content would be called "personal" or "amateur" content and does not go though the same channels as official GoW stuff.