FCAL Proposal Announced at GoMe

[D'Lanor]

So the "power" will be divided over two different groups each with a different task. That is good news. I cannot speak for others but at least my concerns are alleviated.

[andylegate]

As i look up, peering through the cigar smoke, i see that i am back online – thanks more to chance than all the hard work of the lovely people in Bombay. And during the loss of my internet, I see that the GoMa has done an endrun around the GoW.

Nothing unusual about that. It happens in the best of circles. I say, Cheers to GoMahahaha; and GoW may as well get used to working for the guys in the maintainer suits. After all, there it is, black and white, a done deal (according to Andy):

“1. The Guild of Maintainers (GoMa) will act as agents for Cyan Worlds as far as FCA agreements....” and so forth.


No mention of the also-rans, at all, huh?. Guess GoW was asleep at the switch during the secret meetings. Well, sp

I guess I'll have to explain one more time about this, or rather It's going to take Cyan coming over here and saying it themselves before anyone seems to either understand or believe.

Mark DeForest (Chogon) from Cyan sent an email (not PM) on 5/12/08 to 4 people. I was one of the people to receive said email. It was also sent to one other Maintianer Guild Master, and it was also sent to 2 Guild of Writers Guild Councilors. This email was sent on their own with no requesting of such talk from any of us.

Here is the contents of the email:

I would like to discuss something with the GoW and GoMa guildmasters.
At this point, I don't want to discuss this in public because it is a proposal that may or may not have merit.

We can do this via email or maybe on a private forum on one of your sites.

(BTW, don't get too excited, nothing has changed on the GameTap MystOnline agreement front, yet).

Thanks,
Mark DeForest

The Writers Guild Councilors set up a private forum right here on this very forum that I'm posting on. ALL the discussion with Cyan took place on this forum where all the Guild of Writers Guild Councilors and Forum Moderators could see and read everything that was being discussed with Cyan.

At no point did any Guild Master from the Guild of Maintainers do a "Endrun" around the Writers. Every single thing that is in this proposal, was seen by the Writers Council, and they also made major contributions to both adding things, and changing things where they thought necessary.

The quote that you listed about:

1. The Guild of Maintainers (GoMa) will act as agents for Cyan Worlds as far as FCA agreements....”

Was one of the very first posts that Cyan made.
That requirement has since changed to "A rotating panel made up of both Writers and Maintainers." which WE Maintainers insisted upon.

Once again, some people here are accusing the Maintainers of trying to do "power moves" or trying to "police" everyone. That is simply NOT the case. We were VERY loud in our discussions with Cyan about this, as even before the MORE announcment, Maintainers are constantly branded as "Police" or "Power hungry", etc, etc, etc.

Which is very sad since we have not even gotten started yet, and have already been prejudged.

@Alahmnat

I think Rand's idea for the GoA to be working with the storylines is a OUTSTANDING idea, and only makes sense. How about the FCA Panel also include members from the GoA too? As part of ensuring no storyline conflict, that only makes sense for that to happen. The more the merrier to have on that panel. I don't see why anyone from the Writers Guild or the Maintainers Guild having a problem with that.

And maybe, just maybe, people out there will finally start believing that the Maintainers are not trying to run everything.

[Trylon]

First off, it seems that I have something to put right, in defense of our GoMa friends.
Listen up please:

For starters, this was a truly joint effort - both GoMa- and GoW- Councilors have played a very active part in the discussion that preceded the proposal.
(In fact, the GoW councilors hosted the discussion.)
All the writers points were duely noted, considered and included - quite a few points in the current version were suggested by yours truly.
The maintainers and us see eye-to-eye on this very much.

At this moment, the GoMa people are just gauging responses for us all, in order to adapt the FCA proposal.
Most GoW representatives are either on vacation, busy hacking the game engine for your benefit, or otherwise occupied, so it stands to reason to let the Maintainers handle this, that's all.

Now don't forget that we agreed that the FCA panel will consist of both GoMa and GoW representatives (not neccesarily the councilors, mind you!), so we're all equally into this. By all means this IS a joint-venture.

One last point:
The GoMa is trying very hard not to be a police agency, yet they feel they are being accused of the opposite.
The GoMa is trying very hard not to take any real power over everyones ages, limiting themselves to bugs, IP violations and storyline CONFLICTS only, yet they feel they are being accused of quite the contrary.
I upset when I hear that! The maintainers have proven to be our friends in the last 9 months, so they earned our confidence in situations like this.

Remember this also: If you start labeling someone (e.g. with a label "power-hungry police"), and treat them accordingly, you highly increase the changes of them becoming just what you labeled them!
Don't start that road here, please!

Ok, enough strong talk here, please just use the rest of this thread to help improve the FCA proposal itself.

Thanks for your patience in reading this post.

Subtle reminder:
Whoever spreads info contradictory to what I just said will have serious issues with me!

[Kato]

Just wanted to say that I endorse andy and Trylon's statements 100%. We were involved from the beginning and actively discussed and suggested ideas for the proposal. It was a joint effort.

Please do NOT start pitting Guilds against one another here. We are all a family and have to work together or this won't work.

-Kato

[Tweek]

Aww man and here I was gunning for Guild Wars

[andylegate]

Side note:

I need to point out one other thing: me.

If it seems as though I'm always the one answering questions, trying to explain this, or trying to explain that, I do so as a Guild Master of the Guild Of Maintainers. If it has something to do with the GoW only, I'll refer you to the Councilors here. I'm just Joe Writer when it comes to internal thing with the GoW.

The reason that I have posted more than the 6 other GM's from the GoMa, is simple really: I'm not trying to become "all powerful", nor am I trying to "run the show". I'm acting on behalf of 6 other people. 2 of which are on vacation right now and have limited access to even our own forum, and one who is MIA at the moment (I believe that person is also on vacation too, but I'm going to have to whip out their phone number again and give them a call.)

That leaves 4 of us to try and cover things here and back at the GoMa, which is to try and answer questions or, unfortunately, put to rest fears. 3 of whom have their own jobs in RL to attend to. I'm the only one of the GM's there that works from home and can constantly access the forum.

[Robert The Rebuilder]

2. Using guidelines provided by Cyan, the FCA panel, working within the remit of the GoMa Submissions Department under the leadership of its Guildmaster, will review the applications and make sure that nothing in the application conflicts with other Ages, or Cyan and Fan storylines, etc., and will approve or deny FCA requests.

I think it would help immensely if we could see Cyan's guidelines for the FCA's approval/denial decisions as soon as possible. I bet that these have not been released yet, and so it would be great if the community could help form these guidelines.

[Frisky Badger]

2. Using guidelines provided by Cyan, the FCA panel, working within the remit of the GoMa Submissions Department under the leadership of its Guildmaster, will review the applications and make sure that nothing in the application conflicts with other Ages, or Cyan and Fan storylines, etc., and will approve or deny FCA requests.

I think it would help immensely if we could see Cyan's guidelines for the FCA's approval/denial decisions as soon as possible. I bet that these have not been released yet, and so it would be great if the community could help form these guidelines.

You are correct, the specific guidelines have not yet been provided by Cyan. I'm not sure how much input the community can provide since it will involve a lot of legal stuff. Though I'm sure there is at least one liar....excuse me, lawyer out there that is a Myst fan.

[Nynaveve]

Hey, Pappou..... TIME OUT!!

Have you completely missed the rest of this thread or what? You are being a bit rude and insulting here to both the GoMa and your own leadership. From what I hear, you have a track record of opening your mouth without thinking about who it will insult. You seem to have done it yet again. Please stop and think before you blab.

The Counselors in your Guild, who you seem to hold in such high esteem, as well as us, the lowely, puney, stinky, idiodic, moronic, etc etc, GoMa GM's, have been in discussion TOGETHER for several weeks with Chogon regarding this process. Quite frankly, your opinions and criticisms about this process are only welcome if they are civil. Right now, everyone is disregarding what you're saying because its rude and insulting. If you want your voice to be heard about this then reconsider how you're saying whatever it is you're trying to say.

Secondly, "I say, Cheers to GoMahahaha; and GoW may as well get used to working for the guys in the maintainer suits." I'm sorry, what? Since when do we run your Guild? Since when do we say "Sorry your texture is too crappy to allow in game." Or "you don't have enough cool things in your Age, go away." Did you even READ the proposal? This is a process used to determine if an Age or item is technically stable. Will it crash my computer when I load it up? Or are there flying genitalia in there? Or maybe you stole or infringed on Cyan's IP. These are the things we are looking for, not the quality of your Age. Quality is subjective, and therefore it is impossible for us to judge that.

Obviously you have not paid attention to this thread, judging by this statement: "After all, there it is, black and white, a done deal (according to Andy)". This was brought forward as a PROPOSAL, in its very title! This means it is open for discussion and opinion. It is NOT set in stone nor is it black and white.

I find it interesting that you have no trouble slamming the GoMa here in the safety of your own forum. I invite you to come share these same sentiments in our forum and see how well you are received.

[Trylon]

Nynaveve,
Can it!
(Please!)

I know you're upset and I was just as upset when I read his post, but those words aren't helping.
I was tempted to write something similar myself, but if we give in to flaming, where's the end of it?