What about a texture exchange server?

[Trylon]

Well, I can understand and agree with Danachien's point.
I forgot that putting something into the public domain makes it harder to claim something as your own.

I propose we use a license agreement that allows the downloader full rights to do whatever they want with it, and does not require credits to be given, but specifies that copyright retains with the owner. (Called "unlimited license" below)

I'm not a proponent of letting people choose an only-use-this-for-uru license, since that might hamper creativity when used for a side project or something. As I said, I really think that "free textures" should mean exactly that: "Free to use in any way you see fit".

I'd recommend only two "license" categories:
1) Unlimited license - for works that are original, and submitted by the copyright holder
2) Public domain - for works that are either already in the public domain, or for those whose copyright holder really wants to put it into the public domain.

[teedyo]

I'm not a proponent of letting people choose an only-use-this-for-uru license, since that might hamper creativity when used for a side project or something. As I said, I really think that "free textures" should mean exactly that: "Free to use in any way you see fit".

We are definitely coming from two different viewpoints here. My thoughts are that this is primarily for URU related works and that there are community members that are willing to 'give' their works towards that end but not necessarily to some other projects. I'm concerned that a totally unlimited license may reduce what creations people will be willing to submit. Let's say that Tweek spends 936 hours creating a panoramic masterpiece. It could be that he'd be fine with Kierra hanging it on the wall in the queen's antechamber but not so okay with unknown Developer X using it in his proprietary fps for the PSP where it's the backdrop for the assassination of Tinkerbell.

Submitting one's creation under a license which only publicly permits use with URU related content does not preclude the creator from granting license to other work(s) on an individual basis.

[Lontahv]

We have to think of it like this:

You are part of the guild, you are "working" for the guild. Any work you may do for the guild you are doing to "give" to the guild... this post of mine is "my" post but I'm uploading it to the guild and it will be "owned" by what we call in general the forum.

So, how about having the GoW as a whole get credit. I mean, web space costs money... lots of money when it comes to pictures. I'm not going to donate so that people can host "their" textures. This is a guild effort... you give time to the guild and they let you host (you make the texture and give it to the members of the guild and to everyone).

Also, remember that this is for PUBLIC textures. This is not for one-use custom-made textures. And if you REALLY like a texture that say Tweek made (and uploaded to the server for the public), you can say in the credits:

"Textures:
Guild Of Writers
Tweek
"

It's about not _having_ to credit anyone but the GoW as a whole.

[tachzusamm]

I propose we use a license agreement that allows the downloader full rights to do whatever they want with it, and does not require credits to be given, but specifies that copyright retains with the owner. (Called "unlimited license" below)

I'm not a proponent of letting people choose an only-use-this-for-uru license, since that might hamper creativity when used for a side project or something. As I said, I really think that "free textures" should mean exactly that: "Free to use in any way you see fit".

I'd recommend only two "license" categories:
1) Unlimited license - for works that are original, and submitted by the copyright holder
2) Public domain - for works that are either already in the public domain, or for those whose copyright holder really wants to put it into the public domain.

I'm with Trylon here. A general "only-for-URU" license is something I personally don't like. But we could have both separated, explanations below.

My thoughts are that this is primarily for URU related works ...

Right, that was the main intention I had. Primarily. But not exclusively though.

Let's say that Tweek spends 936 hours creating a panoramic masterpiece. [..]

You're extending the areas here we were going to host on the server. But that's not bad and a good idea. We could host such an artwork in a, let's call it "showroom", area.
I mean, we could separate the areas on the server. Let's call such a masterpiece by Tweek (to use your example) an "artwork". So, I don't think we should generally call simple textures "artwork". I mean, in one single afternoon, I could walk outside and take a bunch of photos from fences, ground, bricks, and such. I would have absolutely no problem to give this "work" away for free, to the public. And if it will be used in another project, I will feel fine with this.

So, I would suggest to have different licenses (the two trylon mentioned) depending on the area. Real "artworks" could get an:
1) Unlimited license for use in URU - for works that are original, and submitted by the copyright holder. But the creator retains his copyright, of course.
but "simple material" like textures or sounds could be released to
2) Public domain - for works that are either already in the public domain, or for those whose copyright holder really wants to put it into the public domain.

(Sidenote: I'm a bit worried about the "for works that are either already in the public domain" clause; as Lontahv mentioned, there's no reason to host textures we found elsewhere on the server again as a mirror. Just putting links in a collection would work as well. But we should consider derivative work - like *download a photo from the texture area, making it a tileable version, or making an alpha mask of it, and upload it again*)

Like this:
Area License
----------- ----------
Models 1)
Music 1)
Showcase 1)
Code 1)
Textures 2)
Sounds 2)

Sure, we could let the uploader decide which license model he likes to apply, but having a decision usually makes people hesitate.
If we make it overcomplicated, people would tend to stay away because they would not fully understand which terms actually apply.

[Lontahv]

When you get a texture from CGTextures you give credit to CGTextures... they are made up of piles of people who made the textures but it is united under CGTextures. And when you put an Uru video up online you give credit to CyanWorlds. We have to decide if we are a guild or if we are factions "using" the GoW to showpiece our work--ideally we are all contributing rather than "using".

I'm not sure if we can have the copyright by the person who made the texture but when you come around to giving credit to people who made the textures you can just say something like "GuildOfWriters Textures", this scheme would be the very best.

I'm all for having people keep the rights to the textures but I don't want this to turn into a free place to host your "pics". See when I get a texture I don't want to have to check if it's owned by someone and it's under this-or-that license and then look up that license and then contact them to see if they'll let me use it and so on.

When I get a texture I want to know I'm authorized to use it for ANYTHING I want to use it for as long as I say that it was made by the "GuildOfWriters". I want to have that kind of comfort with this server especially since I am one of the members and would like to use (both sharing and using) this resource.

I do feel that something a bit stronger than releasing it to the public on no conditions is needed.

I hope someone can understand where I'm coming from... after this process is over I want to be able to age-build without stubbing my toe on legal.

[belford]

For images intended for Age building, I'd rather see a consistent license but individual credit. That is, the site would say "All these images can be used freely, as long as the creator is credited." And then each image would be associated with the contributor's name. When you upload an image, you'd be agreeing to those terms.

Other kinds of images are a separate argument and should probably have a different license. But that won't be confusing as long as the site has clearly delineated sections. "Stuff you can download to use in your Age construction" is a section. (Which might include textures, object models, sound effects, etc.)

This then implies that an Age (or, say, an AP shell) comes with a credits list. This is something I'd want to see anyway: not just for textures but background sound, modelling, programming, journal text, and so on. This text could be a journal inside the Age, or next to the linking book, or maybe just on the GoW/GoMa web page that catalogs the Age.

(I've talked about credits for Ages before on this forum.)

EDIT-ADD: And people are already talking about it in this very thread, boing, sorry, I'm an idiot. I didn't read far enough back before I replied.

[Dachannien]

One other thing to be careful about is that if you make a repository of unabashedly free textures (i.e., use them in absolutely anything you want, no questions asked), then you'll have six billion people, roughly, interested in downloading those textures. And they will - sometimes even though they don't really need them.

Storage is cheap. Bandwidth is... well... not so cheap.

While some folks will leech the textures no matter what you do, with more hoops between the public and the textures, fewer people will actually bother downloading them. Make those hoops connected to MORE in some fashion - such as registering on the GoW site, requiring agreement to a "you'll use this stuff for MORE age development, right?" license agreement, or even (later on) having some sort of verification that the registrant is also a MORE subscriber - and when you whittle down the number of people downloading the textures, it'll be the "right" people who are downloading them.

Another hoop example - and I already hate myself for suggesting it - is to design the site such that it's difficult to download more than one texture (or a few textures) at a time, to foil site-scraping programs. The easier you make site-scraping, the more likely people are to actually do it, which means they start downloading dozens or hundreds of textures they will never actually use (thus causing your bandwidth to skyrocket).

[Lontahv]

Dachannien: Good point.

I'd have the textures be able to be used for ANY use as long as the person is a member of the forum.

A small problem is that maybe not everyone who want to age-build wants to join a forum. Doesn't seem like such a big deal to the registered users but you never know.

[diafero]

And I actually understand that, Lontahv. I am currently registered at about 8 Uru boards (and about 4 boards for the rest of my hobbies ), with GoW being the latest one. And even though I was interested in the age building (without building myself, I'm more the programmer ) I didn't really want to add this board to the quite long list of Uru boards. However, I'm quite familiar with English which make this much easier. But especially in one of the other boards I'm a member of (the German H'Uru board) there are many people who don't speak any English at all, and forcing them to register here just to be able to dowload these textures is not a good idea IMHO. You don't have to be a member of the GoW board (and btw, is every member of this board concidered a member of the guild? I was never told or asked during registration ) to be able to build ages.

[Trylon]

Well, then, how about just needing to register at the tex server itself?

Brainstorm idea: how about a simple entry requirement like adding a texture or model of your own, before you can download the rest for free?