Email from Chogon: Cavern Textures....

[Whilyam]

I just realized that Chogon's letter means that the Maintainers will need to make an exception while inspecting ages for copyrighted material. Perhaps any age submitted to the GoMa that uses Cyan's textures should be accompanied by a list of these textures - to avoid getting rejected.

And this probably extends to the FCAL panel as well.

Chogon's letter doesn't specify individual images, so I don't see why age creators should. If Chogon said "you can use images x, y, and z" then this would make sense, but it doesn't. It's a blanket "you may use them with the plasma engine" statement. The only requirement should be that you include that you received permission to use Cyan's images.

Because it wasn't a blanket statement. The question was about cavern textures as was the reply. If you have indication to the contrary; perhaps you could post it?

From four posts up.

Here's my version from Chogon:

Also, if any Cyan assets are used in building this age, we do stipulate that these assets can only be used with the plasma engine for fan create ages (i.e. MORE, ULM, etc.).

So it's not just cavern textures, from what I read in that. Obviously, though, any developer still needs the FCAL for their age.

[teedyo]

From four posts up.

Here's my version from Chogon:

Also, if any Cyan assets are used in building this age, we do stipulate that these assets can only be used with the plasma engine for fan create ages (i.e. MORE, ULM, etc.).

So it's not just cavern textures, from what I read in that. Obviously, though, any developer still needs the FCAL for their age.

Yep, saw that. Unfortunately we have no idea what question/idea/discussion that was in response to and as such it is a meaningless statement without context. So from my perspective this seems simply to be more random myst community logic where Cyan says we can do A and the community decides A means A and B and C and D and .... the universe.

[Whilyam]

Yep, saw that. Unfortunately we have no idea what question/idea/discussion that was in response to and as such it is a meaningless statement without context. So from my perspective this seems simply to be more random myst community logic where Cyan says we can do A and the community decides A means A and B and C and D and .... the universe.

It was in response to an FCAL allowing work on one of my projects. I did not request Cyan resources, the piece I quoted was volunteered by Chogon. I thought that saying "Here's my version from Chogon" would be enough of an explanation, apparently not. So here it is in a way you can understand it: I sent Chogon an Age concept for approval, he sent me the approval along with this at the end. So, if I want to (for this project, I probably don't) I can use Cyan assets in the Age as long as it is only on the Plasma engine.

Also, I love the "random myst community logic" bit. Especially considering the most literal view of what I quoted would be that I'm allowed to use any Cyan asset. I'm in fact taking a restricted viewpoint of it by restricting it to textures. And yet I'm using that darn myst community logic when I ... take people at their word and not twist the words? Darn that logic and its actual direct quotes, it doesn't provide context! I'm trying to read the universe into what Chogon said by.. reading less into it than what most people would.

[andylegate]

I can understand looking at it and wondering it it was suppose to be the Cavern textures only, especially since my original email to Cyan was about just that. Looking again at Chogon's response:

Which I replied with: as long as the textures are only used in Uru and MORE fan created ages and artwork. In other words, only used with the plasma engine (MORE, ULM, etc.) within the FCAL agreement (not for commercial use, etc.).

Thanks,
Mark

No, he did not say ANY textures. Then again, he did not specifically say ONLY cavern textures. You see, there is a problem with nailing down specific textures per Age, due to the simple, plain, clear, right in your face if you'd bother to go take a look fact is, many, many of the textures used in Uru are spead throughout the Ages. You'll find textures used in the cavern, in other Ages too. You'll also find textures used in the Ages in the Cavern!
Better yet, take a look at the Myst V Ages....TONS of textures straight from Uru are in there. They didn't even bother to change the names of them.

Did Chogon's response give us permissions to use their meshes? Well, not in my reply he didn't. He was talking about textures themselves.

His answer was simply: You can use the textures, however you must keep to the FCAL agreement and use the textures only for Uru and MORE, no comercial gains of any sort are allowed.

Does this mean we can use any texture that they (Cyan) has? Well I asked about the Cavern, however, again, the textures even for JUST the cavern contain a hodge podge of textures from other Ages too:

Ahnonay
Cleft
Er'cana
Gahreesen
Kadish
Nexus
Teledahn

Use the PRP Explorer, or tool of you choice and go take a look.

[teedyo]

It was in response to an FCAL allowing work on one of my projects. I did not request Cyan resources, the piece I quoted was volunteered by Chogon.

There you have it; context which was not in your original post. It cites a single specific case; not a generality like was implied.

[Jojon]

Well, as far as I am concerned, it is pretty clear: We use Cyan's used-within-the-cavern textures for "staple" structures within the cavern, to maintain a consistant appearence - anything else, including new stuff in the cavern, should come out of our own creativity, without any "leeching".

Just my very subjective parsing.

[Whilyam]

It was in response to an FCAL allowing work on one of my projects. I did not request Cyan resources, the piece I quoted was volunteered by Chogon.

There you have it; context which was not in your original post. It cites a single specific case; not a generality like was implied.

Wrong again! From the post:

Here's my version from Chogon:

Obviously, though, any developer still needs the FCAL for their age.

[GregW11]

*waits for Chogon to post a clarified explanation of exactly what can/can't be used on the MOUL forums...*

According to Chogon's letter, it could be vaguely interpreted that the journey cloth textures could be used in a fan-created Age.

[BAD]

Hi Andy,

Sorry it took so long to reply.

I talked to Rich (aka RAWA) and he said: "Continuity-wise, I would prefer them to use our textures for the cavern specifically for the reasons given here, but I don't know if that throws up any red flags for the "legal department"."

Which I replied with: as long as the textures are only used in Uru and MORE fan created ages and artwork. In other words, only used with the plasma engine (MORE, ULM, etc.) within the FCAL agreement (not for commercial use, etc.).

Thanks,
Mark

Simple interpretation.....

RAWA is addressing the direct question by stating that in the cavern he would rather see Cyan's textures to keep continuity. He is unsure of the legal ramifications, so his word on that is not reliable.

Chogon states that as long as the textures are used within the legal bounds of the FCAL license, and only in Uru or More, then their should be no legal problems. He is making a general statement about the use of textures. He isn't being specific about the cavern textures, he is simply spelling out the legal ramifications of using Cyan's textures. Unless Chogon comes on here and states that when he wrote "the textures" he only meant the ones in the cavern.

[teedyo]

Perfect example of expanding one subset to include the superset.

Original question was about cavern textures.

Interim response was about cavern textures.

Chogon uses 'the textures' and some assume that means all when the discussion was about the cavern textures.

If a group of people was talking about the NY city transit system and one person says 'the city' instead of New York , should the rest of the group assume he's talking about NY city or every city???