Barriers to Fan Development of MO:RE

[andylegate]

If there is anyone that could point this out to Cyan it is probably GoMa.

J'Kla,

Could you clarify this point? The GM's of the GoMa would like to know what it is you are saying with that statement. Are you saying that the GoMa should act as a communicator to Cyan on the "community's" over all feelings about things? (that would be rather presumptious).
That the GoMa should go out looking for people who might cause problems and "report" them to Cyan? (again, we are not a police force for Cyan, or anyone for that mater).

If we thought we saw software piracy, etc going on at our site, we would more than likely take care of it right then and there.

We'd like to know what it is you mean as we follow this discussion, which, while might seem fruitless to some, does not mean that everyone here should not express their views, ideas and opinions.

Regardless of what Cyan may or may not do, there certainly can't be any harm in free thought, and looking into this. It gives people something to do, as long as they understand that this is a theoretical discussion and not something that is definately going to happen.

[Chacal]

Unfortunately the bucket is currently in use. All hands and buckets are needed to drain the water from the sinking ship.

[GPNMilano]

J'kla, before you rant about Cyan for not giving us the reigns, I want to clarify a few things with you.

1. UU was not shut down by Cyan because of pressure from GameTap. The D'mala Shard was funded by GameTap for the time it was up. They were a driving force behind UU's time. GameTap was funding Cyan's D'mala shard, to get interest in MOUL going again. It was because of a personal relationship that Rand had with Blake over at GameTap that the company didn't go under. When it was about to GameTap stepped in, because Blake was such a fan of both Cyan and Uru, and a friend of Rand's, that he convinced the other executives at GameTap to give it a chance. They gave funding to Cyan to keep them alive, and open up an official shard. Giving UU credential's as a cooperative fan/company run endeavor. It was during this time that the deal for MOUL was reached between the two. Cyan was given funding to improve the Uru Engine, fix the bugs, create new content etc. Until Uru was shut down because MOUL was being released, an engine that was vastly different from Until Uru's and incompatible with the servers etc. Since MOUL was going to be a paid service, they shut Until Uru down, but people knew even then that MOUL was on its way, so it wasn't a great tragedy but the start of something better.

2. Cyan is trying, in these difficult times, to do the best they can do under the circumstances. MORE was not a funded project, but was instead riding on the coattails of CyanTest. One of the games they were testing was probably cancelled by its developer. When that happened it had a ripple effect on MORE, in that MORE's funding was coming from that project. With it canceled by its outside developer, the rest of the money coming into Cyan was not sufficient enough to keep Cyan going, and still fund MORE. So they choose to put MORE on hold until such time as they can start it again. IE when they get another big project.

3. If Cyan doesn't get a big project, if the time comes when the money thats coming in, isn't enough to keep them running. i have no doubt that they will decide what is best for both Uru, the community, and them as a company. Wether that's a go ahead to begin Until Uru officially again, (IE Not underground shards in hiding) Or the release of the information we need to start servers with MOUL code an engine, that will be up to them. That day is not today, but it is probably coming soon. (Chogon said that they were putting it on hold, and would decide in a few months what to do. They're giving themselves time, but from that we can speculate that they know what will come next, and what their next decision is. But it is something they want to hold off unless its necessary) That's just speculation on my part though.

[semplerfi]

UU was not shut down by Cyan because of pressure from GameTap.
>>>snip
They were a driving force behind UU's time.
>>>snip
Until Uru was shut down because MOUL was being released, an engine that was vastly different from Until Uru's and incompatible with the servers etc. Since MOUL was going to be a paid service, they shut Until Uru down
>>>snip

I am not looking for a debate or being critical here.

Would you point to your sources for these statements?

[J'Kla]

GPNMilano

Re point 1
There are vast swathes I disagree with but one absolute is that the only driving force behind UU was the community. The catalyst was Rand with the decision to release the plasma code. The UU servers were paid for and run by community members FOC gratis and other community members ran the admin for the various shards again FOC. D'mala was not the heart of UU the private shards that ran in the interregnum between the closing of prime and the launch of D'mala.

A large chunk of the community dragged their avatar persona's round numerous forums to make sure D'mala was supported. I know I personally took the word to four non English speaking areas three of which knew nothing of the effort being expended.

OK D'mala was a UU Shard but it had code fixes that were written by the community and when the plug was pulled on the UU authentication server Cyan effectively killed access for anyone on dialup or not living in a country able to get GameTap. Was this had the smell of a commercial decision, It is very hard to think of any other reason. It was possible to pull D'mala and leave the private shards running.

The majority of UU shards were running on private hardware OK D'mala was incompatible it was on the same server but please get your facts straight none of the other UU shards were I believe this kind of challenges the first hypothesis.

Point 2
We had UU shards running with zero this bears repeating zero finance it was instrumental in holding the community together it was the same UU memebers that populated D'mala that guided and cosseted those that returned to the fold.

Point 3
I largely agree with and I would hope we would have the MOUL engine but Cyan have reservations wishing to keep propitiatory control of the code that was significantly different from UU I have no problem with that. It is clear that the community is entitled to an opinion and there are ass many opinions as there are members of the community. I have taken a stand to voice my opinion feel free to dispute my view but please be certain your facts are facts.

My main drift was to point out that interest wanes as a square of the distance in time. The longer we wait the harder it will be to re-kindle interest during the last big hiatus we had UU, Other virtual spaces and the forums as a largely positive space to meet and discuss the future this time we only have the forums and those other spaces. Those other spaces "WoW" and "There" to name but two have their own attractions that can only weaken the draw of a re-launched Uru.

Andy
You appeared concerned that I should think of GoMa as a "police force" I should clarify I suggested that they should police the development as it is GoMa currently police any approaches to Cyan. Our only way to get story line to Cyan is through the GoMa and your policy with Piracy on the site is a police action (I totally agree that this should be the case).

I do not condone any illegal shard I just am weary that if we tolerate this "please wait and see" message from Cyan without a real light at the end of the tunnel we face a distinct possibility of there being some radical action. I want to see a dialogue with Cyan and GoMa has made it clear that they can communicate with Cyan.

With that communication path in place surely it would do no harm for GoMa to knock on the door at Cyan and say respectfully there a concern being voiced out here and it's not calling for radical change and We have read it and it 's not suggesting anything that will compromise your position storywise.

I want Cyan to know I am out here crying in my beer trying to get them to accept free help and if the buckets are being used to bail a sinking ship let us know where they are and we can help by plugging some of the holes from the outside.

Cyan have pinned their hopes on the "testing software" market so be it. I don't want to see their demise I only wish it known that (And I make this clear that this is a personal opinion) holding out on a re-launch of UU as private shards and a refusal to accept community help is short sighted.

This is an open discussion feel free to be as bitter and twisted as a lemon pierced by a corkscrew. Free thought is one of the last bastions of true freedom but be warned I will respond vociferously to inaccuracies...

[andylegate]

Andy
You appeared concerned that I should think of GoMa as a "police force" I should clarify I suggested that they should police the development as it is GoMa currently police any approaches to Cyan. Our only way to get story line to Cyan is through the GoMa and your policy with Piracy on the site is a police action (I totally agree that this should be the case).

I do not condone any illegal shard I just am weary that if we tolerate this "please wait and see" message from Cyan without a real light at the end of the tunnel we face a distinct possibility of there being some radical action. I want to see a dialogue with Cyan and GoMa has made it clear that they can communicate with Cyan.

With that communication path in place surely it would do no harm for GoMa to knock on the door at Cyan and say respectfully there a concern being voiced out here and it's not calling for radical change and We have read it and it 's not suggesting anything that will compromise your position storywise.

I'm afraid that, no, the only way to get a story line is NOT through the GoMa. Right now, the only way to try and get a storyline though is directly to Cyan via Email. IF and when the FCAL panel goes up, it still will not be up to JUST the GoMa, but a panel made up of members from other guilds too.

We don't police anyone approaching Cyan. We can give suggestions, but we certainly can't stop anyone from trying to communicate with Cyan. We (the GoMa and the Grand Masters of it) would be horrified to find that anyone thinks that, as it is simply not true.

The "communication path in place" at this moment, is the same path that it has always been: emailing Cyan. Nothing about that has changed as far as anyone of us over at the GoMa knows about.

We, the GoMa, could certainly email Cyan with our concerns, but we don't really have any at the moment, other than supporting their current policies that they have. We do not actively go looking for trouble, nor do we play at being detectives or police officers hunting down trouble makers. What we do right now is test people's Ages that they create, offer advice and support. If the GoMa ever did become some sort of policing agency, I would be one of the first to hand in my resignation.

[Robert The Rebuilder]

...and speaking of emailing Cyan, yesterday I sent Chogon a summary of the issues we brought up here, plus our suggested workarounds - in order to see what Cyan's thoughts are on the subject. I'll let you all know when I get a reply.

Thanks for the interesting discussion!

[andylegate]

That's great Robert!

Me and my son finally got around the technical issue with loading up Call Of Duty 5 Beta on our computers, as we are both Beta testers for it right now (due to hit the shelves by Nov. 11).

Wait.... Now THAT was really off topic, wasn't it? hehehehe

[J'Kla]

Thanks Robert and Yes Andy but not that far off topic "Call of Duty" is one of those distractions I mentioned.

[Grogyan]

I've gone back to playing Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance and UT3, in my off time, whatever that is.

i'll be interested Robert in what Cyan has to say.