What the heck is BAD talking about?

[Zardoz]

To tell the truth, the broader MOUL community doesn't give a rip about the GoW hierarchy - that's because the GoW hierarchy hasn't made any serious attempt to engage them, rather than lecture them, so the broader MOUL community is simply ignoring the GoW. Still, the apparent GoW attitude of "MOUL makes me stupid" is probably not a good basis for community building, so I'm merely projecting my reaction to that attitude onto the broader MOUL community.

Damn, I really undermining my case to be a representative, aren't I?

[BAD]

Sign up Zardoz. We'll let you in.

So what your saying is that because we are critical of how the MOUL forums are used and ran, those who use and run the MOUL forums are writing our efforts and words off?




Seriously, I would like to hear your ideas for a solution to this problem. If you honestly think that the current administration here cannot help the GOW become a part of the bigger picture, then we need to change to fit into that. If we are left out in the cold, then OSU will lose big time as the most loyal parts of the GOW happen to be the most talented and brightest.

[Chacal]

"MOUL makes me stupid" was my personal opinion only, the GoW has no such opinion.

[Zardoz]

... the most loyal parts of the GOW happen to be the most talented and brightest.

Yes, but at what? Like it or not, Cyan is about to shove the GoW and the other Guilds into the roles of community building and organizing - and IMNSHO, this guild in particular is lousy at those tasks. You can avoid them by focusing on your core mission - build Ages and dabble in code. But any talk of getting together with the other guilds, hosting canon-shards, etc., is talking about something that is not just a technical exercise, but inherently involves working with people in the broader community, outside the guilds. (I'm not convinced, BTW, that this guild has an exclusive claim on the most talented and brightest, as there are some pretty damn smart people outside.) And that means having some modest amount of skill for community leadership. The toys you're about to be given should be held in trust for the broader Uru community, which means that the question you should be asking yourselves is how your most talented and brightest can serve that community.

So here's my suggestion: Add a Councilor Grand-PooBah, or whatever it is you like to call yourselves, of Community Outreach. And mean it - really mean it. And if you can't fill in the gaps, and see what that Councilor would do, and why it needs to be at that level in your hierarchy, well . . .

[BAD]

(I'm not convinced, BTW, that this guild has an exclusive claim on the most talented and brightest, as there are some pretty damn smart people outside.)

I agree with you there. I know probably half a dozen extremely talented guys who practically hate this place. A couple of them I am still able to talk to on a regular basis, which is surprising to me.

I'll post more later, I need sleep.

[andylegate]

The thought of talent being exclusively in the GoW would be a mistake. There are a LOT of people out there with various talents that don't even consider themselves a part of the GoW or any guild for that matter.

What would be good to see is the GoW and other guilds, working together in a way that reaches out to other people and groups. Granted there will be no way to make everyone happy, that would be a pipe dream to think that way. But if there is a way to make the majority of people happy, that would be better.

BAD, you are really good with words. Use that ability to try and reach out. Keep in mind how posting over at MOUL can get....well lets say stretched that causes people to think in a negative way. Like that one post of yours over there, I know you made it in frustration and maybe a bit of anger, but it had BIG impacts. Many people commented privately to me that they thought the GoW was acting kind of snotty with a "Well if we can't have our way, we're going to take are ball and go home"

That's why when I post over there, many things are in jest, but if it's something "official" about the Maintainers, it's only after I've talked it over with the other GM's at the Maintainers. Same for here or anywhere else.

You guys can adapt a "We don't care what others think." type of attitude (I'm not saying y'all do have that attitude, but sometimes it DOES read that way...the dangers of reading text and not hearing a voice or seeing a face when talking), but if you do, I think it would hurt both the GoW and the community.

What could it hurt to ask people to volunteer to go over to Open Uru and be there, if nothing else than to keep the GoW's interests and being informed? Maybe even help.

I know some of you don't want to do that, for various reasons, but why burn that bridge or shut that door? The GoW isn't just a handful of people. Y'all have LOTS of people here. Find someone or people here that are willing to take part in it, if for no other reason than to show that the GoW can work with others, and to keep you up to date on what is going on over there too.

Just an idea. Now I'm off to count carbs for today.....

[BAD]

I'm just going to ignore the obvious cherry picking of my post. If it isn't completely obvious I don't think the GOW has any kind of lock on the most talented and brightest people in the community then let me spell it out for you.

I never intended to say or allude that the GOW has the best and the brightest in the community.

What I want to know is why the GOW is assumed to be in charge of running the whole Guilds server movement? There are four or five other guilds that will be potentially involved. We haven't even had a meeting about it yet.

It may be that at the Guilds meeting it is decided the GOW's role will only be to work on code and create the servers needed to play the game. I don't see why we would be asked to be the social leaders of the movement at all. If anyone should, I think the Maintainers or the Greeters should be the ones who actually deal with the social end of the movement. Asking the GOW to lead the whole movement would be like asking the IT guys to run human Resources.

Yes, I personally put forward the idea on MOUL, and I am trying to come up with an outline to show everyone how it is possible, but I am not the voice for the entire GOW, just as much as Chacal's opinions do not represent the entire GOW's thoughts.

Now about our administration.....

Frankly, if you have read our administration documents, you would know that our council is only for doing their specific jobs and if there is any big decisions needed to be made, they are decided by our voting body, the representatives.

So, yes, our administration is very loose. We try our best to stay out of the way. There is a lot of creativity being thrown around here, and we want it to continue uninterrupted.

We want to be involved with the general public more of course, but we don't want our momentum slowed because of politics.

On openuru.org,

I am sure there are GOW members on the site already, and more will join no doubt. I don't see why this is something people are pushing for already. Nothing is solid yet, but we all should just run over to this site just in case it becomes the hub for everything? Sorry, I think I'll wait and see.

I'm sorry that I had to spell out why some people don't want to use openuru.org. I'm just saying what I know. Yes, I understand that I am no beauty queen either, but I serve my purposes. Otherwise I wouldn't be in the position I am in right now.

[Lontahv]

Well said, BAD.

[Nalates]

Hey! With a name like BAD… you are obviously BAD… (teasing).

Since most of us do not include emotes in our writing we are going to be misunderstood. People interpret according to their personality and mood. Deal with it. The sensitive and politically correct are not likely to survive long running an Uru Server or forum. Confrontation is part of life. How one handles disagreement, is really all that counts. Settling for compromise over consensus seldom leads to success, IMO.

Most of the sites we have thought of for Guild Neutral locations are not acceptable. UO mod’s have said it is unlikely UO forum software will be updated. So, unless something changes there, it’s a problem. In a vacuum, it is starting to look like OpenUru.com will be the place. There are discussions about adding a wiki. That addition is just a matter of time. So, there is a new forum and a coming wiki. People are voting with their clicks.

HOWEVER – I have a big problem with OpenUru.org using this type of signup: “Your account has been created. However, this board requires account activation by the administrator group. An e-mail has been sent to them and you will be informed when your account has been activated.” This does not sound Guild Neutral to me. This is not the case at any of the guild forums, AFAIR.

GoMa has a GOOD thread going on planning out what they want to do for a testing server and how it will be done. Of all the threads theirs is looking at some of the points others shy away from, i.e., access control, banning, and paying for the thing.

This may well boil down to whom does things the best and soonest. If the Cyan software does not scale down to a single machine, Uru will be a team-effort-only-thing for the near term. A few super geeks with some extra iron lying around might pull it off sooner. Time will tell.

I expect the GoMa to have a testing server and work out how to do it. I expect GoW to will have an extended canon server for general game play. I now think OpenUru.org may form a team for an extended canon server and is the visible candidate for the team that will maintain the server/client code.

Providence favors those that act…

[Chacal]

Providence favors those that act

This.

For the moment openUru has the only down-to-earth discussion about the actual physical and software requirements.