How to decide which Fan age is first on Moulagain

[Chacal]

I wonder how the game would handle having two different Nexi?

It seems to me the Nexus is way too complicated for what we need.
Also, it was only necessary to work around the rule against linking to a spot in the same Age.
The D'Ni kept their books in libraries and in homes, on good ol'shelves.
I suggest we put our books in a library building in its own prp file. This would be updated everytime a book is added.

Actually, there is already a Library in the City. Isn't it the logical place to put books in?

[GPNMilano]

The Nexus is actually pretty self contained. The majority of it's code is all python, very little (if any) vault stuff there.

I'd prefer a Nexus, only to keep the main Nexus clean and organized. It'd be much easier for fan related ages, to send invites via the Writer's Nexus for those ages. Plus it's GUI could be made to reflect the type of ages it stores. ("D'ni-Cavern" for user created cavern stuff. "Explorer Restored" for ages restored by explorers. "Explorer Written" for ages who IC the age was written by the explorer in question etc.)

[Oliver Knowles]

It seems to me the Nexus is way too complicated for what we need.
Also, it was only necessary to work around the rule against linking to a spot in the same Age.
The D'Ni kept their books in libraries and in homes, on good ol'shelves.

Yes, definitely the most exciting method, IMO, would be to spread the books out as much as possible. The nexus system bores me because it's not explorative.. especially the UAM nexus... the explorer faces the anticlimax of: "oh, here's 25 different places I can go... what now?"

There are only a few MOUL areas that are accessed exclusively through the nexus. Putting ages in the cavern gives a better feeling of continuity, I think, and could inspire writers/restorers to think more about the backstory of their age, how it connects with D'ni as a civilization.

Whatever happens, I hope writers will be permitted reasonable alternatives to their age originating at a central hub. If Ae'gura isn't possible, maybe the SubRest area or a new district could be used, not to mention ages within ages.

[GPNMilano]

...I'm only going to put it this way and let you guys come to the realization that a Library, or cavern area with all the books available makes no sense:

As someone pointed out, the UAM currently has 80 ages on it (Technically 81 as my hood office is downloaded with Eder Licinius) Even if you strike out 20 of those ages as not making it into MOULA (for reasons of either the author not wanting it in MOULA, or not being a member of the community anymore or whatever) that's still 61 books AT THE START, that will need links. Tell me how you're going to fit 61 books into an age without it looking like Prin Pahts? And have them all laid out so someone who wants to go to a specific place, knows where that books is?

The only practical solution is a Nexus. It sucks, but there's no way to have that many books in a single age, open to everyone, without creating problems.

[Trylon]

The only practical solution is a Nexus. It sucks, but there's no way to have that many books in a single age, open to everyone, without creating problems.

I respectfully disagree. I think the nexus - at least in its current form - is highly unpractical for navigating 80+ ages.
I have this idea that a well designed and well programmed bookshelves area could be as dynamic as the nexus though. If programmed correctly, it could be filled up dynamically, and if designed correctly it could be well navigatable. Also, it could put ofen used books on open reading stands - even dynamically - or in a "Popular" category.
It could be individual access to avoid multiplayer problems, though I'd like neighborhood access better.

[Chacal]

Well, there is a bookshelf in Relto. That's pretty compact.
The names of Ages could be written on the spine.
Pretty much like Whilyam used to do in Toroolbah.

Oliver gives me ideas.

1- There is no need to gather all the books together. There could be several buildings, acting as D'Ni family residences or something.
2- Some books could be protected by a puzzle or a journey. Clues could be in a different part of the City, or a different Age.

[Rainforce]

Well, there is a bookshelf in Relto. That's pretty compact.
The names of Ages could be written on the spine.
Pretty much like Whilyam used to do in Toroolbah.

Oliver gives me ideas.

1- There is no need to gather all the books together. There could be several buildings, acting as D'Ni family residences or something.
2- Some books could be protected by a puzzle or a journey. Clues could be in a different part of the City, or a different Age.

and at least one pellet drop puzzle.
Nah, I think the dynamic library is a far better idea, but we should sort it properly to find some books again.
Elsewise we are just running around headless while trying to find "that one book"...
Also, explorer written books should be never canon (I mean family buildings and stuff), only written by the explorers themselfs and handled as these. The cavern, the story, is property of cyan (because some people might not like what crazyness was added to their beloved story, just because some fan fic writers are so proud to think they could change someone else's story), but ours is the game when we reach OS. so just explain it IC as it is, and let's not dream any higher.
we can use family buildings/puzzles for explorer created content, though, but still think of the impact on the community if they first need to run around in some puzzle way, wait 15 mins and only have access to the books after the pit of spikes and advancing wall of doom. [don't worry about the spike pit, in 5 minutes it will be filled to the top with cones and forever passable ]

[diafero]

The Nexus is actually pretty self contained. The majority of it's code is all python, very little (if any) vault stuff there.

I'd prefer a Nexus, only to keep the main Nexus clean and organized.

You must be kidding here... keeping it clean? Everyone who ever took a look at the Python sources of the Nexus (and I know you did, too) must have shivered browsing through the code... actually, I remember only two Python scripts being even more horrible, which are the KI and the Relto Shelf - yes, in that order, even though the KI code is much longer. So whatever we do, we to start that from scratch anyway, hacking on the current implementation is a pure nightmare. I recently had to do it again to fix some weird issue with the Offline KI books in Relto, and it took me some hours to even find the spot where the problem occurs... and I added one more of these crazy work-arounds, because doing it right would mean re-writing it all from scratch.


Back to the topic, I think a Nexus is the easiest way to present a long list of ages, and of course the GUI needs to be improved - the most important feature being scroll bars, and using the column headers to sort. Some kind of rating mechanism can also most easily be added to such a machine (together witha KI function to "rate the current age"). However, I would also like to see some kind of library with "real" books. Not those anonymous boxes containing linking books which are all the same - we are speaking about a society built around books, so we should have books, big and small ones, with simple covers or complex artwork on them, basically as versatile (does that word make sense in this context?) as books in our real world are. So for example the most recently released/changed ages should be present in a prominent place, for people to notice them. The best rated ages could also deserve a specialized shelf. Yes, this is quite similar to how I organize the Offline KI Shelf .

[Oliver Knowles]

To Chloe: I think the outcome of this issue depends on the way MOULA/OSU pans out, in terms of our IP rights, and our/cyan's control over the inclusion of explorer ages on the official shard.

One proposed model is that projects go through a more-or-less "official" QA process with the guild(s), and Cyan presides. If we go with this, then we won't be faced with 60+ ages all ready for inclusion at once. They will go through some kind of revision and approval process (possibly format conversion as well).

I would love to see a system in place where ages are constructively checked by each guild for debug, canon (where applicable) and aesthetics. Then, the writer works with the guilds to establish the age's place in the cavern and in the community, whether it be hidden in a ruined building, in a restored office, in a museum, library or nexus, or behind the uh... wall of doom. They might create a new area, and IMO this kind of cavern expansion is a feasible and worthy pursuit, again, depending on the degree of modification/expansion we are allowed, and providing the guilds aren't swamped with too many projects at once. Writers could opt out, of course, but those who wish to be involved should be allowed to develop this kind of rich content without having to subscribe to a nexus.

What comes to mind are the writer/restorers who have their own base of operations, like Whilyam, Tweek/TTP, and you (Chloe Rhodes). Perhaps these places could be integrated with the cavern-- real, walkable buildings with ages inside, like the museum and the library.

As for explorers running around headless, isn't that what Myst/Uru is all about? I think explorers could enjoy using clues to solve the puzzles and access the hard-to-access areas. And we should have the Guild of Cartographers for those who just want to get through it.

So... I hope that made sense and wasn't offensive. For the first age, I vote for Bimevi. Maybe we could make the stained-glass and put it in some neighborhoods.

[GPNMilano]

The Nexus is actually pretty self contained. The majority of it's code is all python, very little (if any) vault stuff there.

I'd prefer a Nexus, only to keep the main Nexus clean and organized.

You must be kidding here... keeping it clean? Everyone who ever took a look at the Python sources of the Nexus (and I know you did, too) must have shivered browsing through the code... actually, I remember only two Python scripts being even more horrible, which are the KI and the Relto Shelf - yes, in that order, even though the KI code is much longer. So whatever we do, we to start that from scratch anyway, hacking on the current implementation is a pure nightmare. I recently had to do it again to fix some weird issue with the Offline KI books in Relto, and it took me some hours to even find the spot where the problem occurs... and I added one more of these crazy work-arounds, because doing it right would mean re-writing it all from scratch.

Let me reevaluate my statement and clarify "keep the main Nexus as clean and organized as it currently is" The Writer's Nexus would, in theory, work on a whole new python script separate from the regular Nexus. New UI interface (with scroll bars, and easy sorting A-Z headers for age names).

I'm not really against having books spread around the ages. But the main hub of explorer created books should be self contained with easy access. Like the other ages we can then have linking books in various places if we want them. IE. Not every book needs a pedestal or "place to keep it" in the cavern. But every book should be contained in one area. The easiest access would be a Nexus in that case. At least thats how it can work once we get to the end step of this MOUL/OS ride. Till then, it will be Cyan who decides how access to fan created content should go, and they seem to be leaning in the direction of a nexus.