Community Nexus

[Egon]

This subject is reoccurring from time to time, recently is being quite actively disused on couple of threads, so it's time to give it a proper attention. But let's start from beginning.

There is this reoccurring question "How we should give player access to Fan created ages"? Right now we have this hacked Cyan Nexus, which display all ages installed. It "worked" so far, but It has some limitations (and some other out-of-the-game issues). So we

I don't see a reason to invent a wheel: we should use Cyan design approach. I think we need two special ages (which will be required to install order to future versions of OfflineKI work properly): our Library Age, and our Nexus Age. Library will be an age to get links to Fan Ages, and Nexus will be an age to access those Ages a player have a link.
This approach will give us two features not present in current solution:
1) there will be a clear distinction between Cyan ages, and Fan created Ages (this is example of out-of-the-game issue which I mention above)
2) a proper way to reward player a new Age. For example: in order to get to "Chloe's Hood Office" now, player always have to go though "Eder Licinius". Sometimes age writer might do this on purpose: in order to get to reward age player would have go though whole age again. But it would be better if such reward age, after first link, would be accessible directly in our Nexus. Additionally: right now it's not an option, it the only technical way.

I also think that we should start with Nexus age instead of Library age (although work on those ages can be done in parallel) because in case of this age it's less about modeling (it's a wild guess, but I bet that most of us will be ok with using current Nexus model, with different textures), and it's more about building proper code, and establishing some standards.

Now as for the Nexus age itself:

There are plans to create a Writer's Nexus that will allow us to register fan created age links. But it's only in the planning stages as of yet.

I tried to contact GPNMilano via this forum 19 December. I saw she read my message but didn't respond. So first of all: is someone capable to contact her outside of this forum? I think we need to know how much stuff have been done in this matter.

If no one will be able to contact her then: should be wait? how long?

And lastly: if we don't get info from GPNMilano, then who would like to start working on our nexus age?
(I would but I don't have enough knowledge to start working on it. And I think we have more experience writers here, who should be working on it instead of me.)

[Sirius]

I like this idea.
If it can be useful, I attached the file for a simple Nexus based on the CC Nexus but linking only to Fan-Ages. Don't know if it can help, but it can be a beginning. It might be a little buggy though. I don't know.

Using current Nexus model, with different textures.

Could be a good idea !Replacing the floor "star" symbol with a Writers symbol and a few other textures...

[kaelisebonrai]

Hokay...

Categories:

If you want to do categories - start by listing your categories - at putting all currently released ages into them - that should be your first goal, because if it turns out that's not feasible - you'll need to design differently.

You'll also need to confer with the Writers of those Ages, at least those that are still around.

If the writers disagree - you'll need to move it.

EDIT: Right...

Chloe managed to figure out scrollbars, so I'd recommend doing scrollbars.

[Egon]

This is from "Personal links" thread:

Categories:
If you want to do categories - start by listing your categories - at putting all currently released ages into them - that should be your first goal, because if it turns out that's not feasible - you'll need to design differently.
You'll also need to confer with the Writers of those Ages, at least those that are still around.
If the writers disagree - you'll need to move it.

I didn't do such list because I think that first of all it's the writer who knows where his/her Age should go. But starting to make such summary is a good idea.
I assume, that any active writer who happens to read this forum will assign own age to categories which find proper. Then, after some time, we might start fill in blanks for ages of non active writers.

I assume that an Age might fit more than one category (but probably no more then 2-3). I also assume that it would be impossible to do right now the final list of all categories.

For example: I was thinking that instead of "city locations" there should be two categories: Ae'gura, and City. Then I read that already names of some districts are establish, so I though about making a category for each districts. But that might lead to to many categories and we again end up with unusable list. Then I though "how about 2 level category tree?". Where would be main categories, and sub categories. Player would select "city", and then in the subategories list would see a list of districts, and then select one district and finally saw a list of link for that district. That would be also good for contests. There would a main category "Contests", and after selecting it, in subcategories list there would be list of all contests. But such category tree might lead to a to much confusion, and we might again end up in unusable interface (any comments on 2 level category tree welcome). *

So as for list of categories, I would now propose:
- Featured (will be a dynamic list of 5-10 Ages we, as a guild, find to be "best" at current point in time. It would be a category designer for players new fan content, so they would know what we find worth checking in the first place)
- City - in the future there might be a need to split it to different categories. Se above.
- Garden - it might be needed to split it to "Eder" + "Explorable"
- Office - or "Residence". Or have both, not sure now.
- Guild - might be good in the future, but not sure is it good to have it now.
- Experimental - think "TINA testing area"
- Other - for those ages, which really, really, really won't fit anywhere else.

There should be a category for "ages with a story" (think DRA Office, Sonavio) but I have no idea how to name it.

Chloe managed to figure out scrollbars, so I'd recommend doing scrollbars.

Yes I knew. Because of this, and because she uses non standard GoW plugin, and because she declared that there are some workings going on in regards to this topic, I would love to hear any news from her.

*- after making this list also also remembered another flaw in two level category tree: In case of most ages, there isn't any good "super category" which would be fitting. Maybe "Stable" (thinkg "Fahets", "Maw", "Bimevi") and "unstable" (think "Hayal", "Atlantis Outpost", "First Age of Dustin")

[kaelisebonrai]

Re: nonstandard plugin - that's ok, you'll need to use one, too.

The reason I suggested putting every existing age into a category - is to know /exactly/ if your categories will work.

Another note is - I have no fondness for an addition that segregates Fan Ages from Cyan Ages - that is to our /detriment/ rather than to our benefit.

I have/had contact with Chloe outside of these forums, but I have no wish to assist you in this project.

Please, for the love of god, if you're going to design this at /all/, do some research on interface design, - or get some who /has/ to design it for you. One badly designed interface is more than enough.

Also note, Eders are /not/ Garden ages by definition - they are merely "rest" Ages.

In addition - you'll find that most fan d'ni locations do not nail down their district, or location.

And there is no sense in separating parts of the Age of D'ni within the categories.

[Tweek]

1) there will be a clear distinction between Cyan ages, and Fan created Ages (this is example of out-of-the-game issue which I mention above)

I find this a tad counter productive, this further enforces the whole us vs cyan mentality the community has regarding content. Instead of it being drawn together to just being content, doesn't matter who by.

D'ni is D'ni and if it follows the lore/canon correctly then it shouldn't matter if it's by Cyan or Fans.

The only reason I could see for having a separate Nexus is to filter out Ages from Plasmuru Maps (i.e., Ages that does adhere to canon and are just fun places to visit).

Not to mention some Writers will not want some of their Books showing up in the Nexus. Whilst Fehnir's House is a D'ni location it wouldn't likely appear in the Nexus as it's one guys house, who is he to be so important to have a Nexus Link to his own house? Just as an example.

[GPNMilano]

Sorry for not popping in sooner with this. As Egon said there was talk of doing a Writer's Nexus. The idea behind it was for it to serve as a repository for fan created ages that could be accessed for MOULAgain. MOULA didn't have a way for fan created ages to be easily added. The way Cyan has their Nexus arranged required them to update the Nexus whenever they wanted a new age added. Not to mention it would have become easily clogged given the current layout of the MOULa Nexus. So the Writer's Nexus was going to be a place for only fan created ages to go. The new interface would have been streamlined for ease of use, and a book could have been placed on the relto shelf to access it. Since the Writer's Nexus would have been entirely python driven for linking, there would be no use to update the age files for the Nexus itself like there is for MOULa's current Nexus.

In the end, as it stands, the design of the Nexus age itself is finished, and it can be visited, but the GUI itself never got off the ground cause of other stuff that took a front seat. Because OS slowed to a crawl and no one else seemed interested in helping me with the GUI I decided to just mothball it till someone wanted to take a look. I can upload some pictures however if people are intersted in seeing what the age itself looks like.

[GPNMilano]

Chloe managed to figure out scrollbars, so I'd recommend doing scrollbars.

Well, Chloe didn't really "figure out" scrollbars. Chloe discovered there was scrollbar like functionallity once upon a time in Uru. Wether or not it actually works remains to be seen as I didn't ever get around to testing it. I'm assuming since it's still in each version of Uru it probably works.

[Egon]

The reason I suggested putting every existing age into a category - is to know /exactly/ if your categories will work.

That's fair point.

Re: nonstandard plugin - that's ok, you'll need to use one, too.
I have/had contact with Chloe outside of these forums, but I have no wish to assist you in this project.
Please, for the love of god, if you're going to design this at /all/, do some research on interface design, - or get some who /has/ to design it for you. One badly designed interface is more than enough.

I might have not emphasize this it enough: I would LOVE to see that Chloe is making/finishing this Writers' Nexus. I know that she is more experience in age creation (hell, I think that are a lot of people here more experience than I am), and I don't find my self i having enough knowledge right now to pull this of on my own. That's why I contacted her in the first place: to find out what going on with this, and throw some her some ideas. Because I wasn't able to contact her directly, so I did it via thread.
Because what I write so far is in no way a design document. Just a bunch of ideas throw away to get some feedback from more experience people.

Another note is - I have no fondness for an addition that segregates Fan Ages from Cyan Ages - that is to our /detriment/ rather than to our benefit.

I find this a tad counter productive, this further enforces the whole us vs cyan mentality the community has regarding content. Instead of it being drawn together to just being content, doesn't matter who by.

Just for the record: I don't see this as "us vs cyan", for me this is "us and cyan".

D'ni is D'ni and if it follows the lore/canon correctly then it shouldn't matter if it's by Cyan or Fans.

Yes, separating content, is more of "gamplay" (and maybe a little bit of "copyright") issue, than "story" issue. From story perspective, Your right. If we had "Library Age", and eliminate "Restoriation links" from Nexus (since D'ni didn't have that) everything would be ok. But I'm afraid that Cyan might not go for this.
And also there is this problem: if we would like to change GUI interface for Nexus we (as far I understand) will have to rebuild it. So, why not make a new Age while at it? (Yes, it's rhetoric question. I get that not everyone likes the idea of separate Nexus age, so I don't try to convince anybody. Just describing my opinion.)

The only reason I could see for having a separate Nexus is to filter out Ages from Plasmuru Maps (i.e., Ages that does adhere to canon and are just fun places to visit).

Yes, this is also one of the reasons. For "Writer's Nexus" we don't need excuses to "why certain ages are there".

Not to mention some Writers will not want some of their Books showing up in the Nexus. Whilst Fehnir's House is a D'ni location it wouldn't likely appear in the Nexus as it's one guys house, who is he to be so important to have a Nexus Link to his own house? Just as an example.

And this is perfect example to my previous sentence. With assumption that from IC perspective that it's explorers who have control other what is showing up in Writer's Nexus, there might be link to "Fehnir's House" just because explorers of URU find it interesting (from IC perspective that is. Of corse it's the author who have the last word about it).

Also note, Eders are /not/ Garden ages by definition - they are merely "rest" Ages.

Yes I know. Thous my initial idea to have category "Eders", and not just "Gardens".

And there is no sense in separating parts of the Age of D'ni within the categories.

Huh. Now that's interesting idea: have "D'ni" category instead of the "city".

EDIT: After reading Chloe post:

In the end, as it stands, the design of the Nexus age itself is finished, and it can be visited, but the GUI itself never got off the ground cause of other stuff that took a front seat. Because OS slowed to a crawl and no one else seemed interested in helping me with the GUI I decided to just mothball it till someone wanted to take a look. I can upload some pictures however if people are intersted in seeing what the age itself looks like.

So it is as I was expecting. Unfortunately. And yes some screenschots would be nice.

[GPNMilano]

So it is as I was expecting. Unfortunately. And yes some screenschots would be nice.

Just to be clear however, while I mothballed it for future use. The intention with all of my projects I mothball is to go back to them later. Most are only mothballed because they hit some kind of wall. The "wall" in this case is that I'm simply not comfortable coding a completely new Nexus GUI from scratch. Diafero was going to help me with this but he's been busy with school and I understood that, hence it was placed into "mothballs". I never like to see something I've created sit there and languish forever. And the Writer's Nexus is a perfect example of that. It's something that needs work, and while I could devote my time to doing so, there are others out there with better knowledge of how this should be done than I, and those are the people I rely on to help me finish massive design issues like the GUI. As I said, the entire Nexus itself is finished. It's just the GUI that needs help, and I would rather someone whose played with the KI,Nexus, and Relto Bookshelf have a crack at doing it the right way this time around.

EDIT: Also, with the writer's nexus I used the 3dsMax plugin to export. It has more functionality than PyPRP at this stage, and the requirements needed to export the GUI are better suited for Cyan's Plugin.