Does a Bump Map Require subdivision?

[bnewton81]

Is a bump map a viable alternative to high poly modeling, or does it still require a lot of subdivision of the mesh? I'd like to make my age as cpu friendly as possible without sacrificing texture authenticity. Oh, and does this approach work with PyPRP?

[Lontahv]

Bump maps are never used in Plasma. I think you may be referring to normal maps. Normal maps are rarely used in Plasma (used maybe 3 or so times by Cyan) and unsupported by PyPRP. If you are careful with your mesh you should be able to create enough detail and at the same time not use too many vertices and faces.

[bnewton81]

Going to be hard to effect depth within fine detail, like say in a desk's ornate carvings or moldings around doorways. What are my limits when it comes to polygons? How does that work? I know I've asked this before, but in different context. Still I am unclear as to what range i should be shooting for. Should i be paying attention to vert or poly numbers? How many is too many? Ya know for the average player.

Your right i did mean normal mapping, but now that i know the difference can bump mapping be used? Like on specularity, Cmir, reflection, etc.?

[andylegate]

If you were using Max and Cyan's plugin, I'd tell you to use Plasma Bumpmap for your material, and that the maximum amount of faces any mesh can have and still export is 15,000.

But since you are using Blender and PyPRP, as Lontahv said, it's not supported the current version of PyPRP at this time, and PyPRP will not export anything over 10,000 faces if I remember correctly.

For reflections, you use Environmental Maps (either Static or Dynamic). Specularity is supported.

When we import Cyan's Ages into Blender, you'll see they used very low poly counts on most of their meshes, and depended upon textures and lighting to make things look detailed.

[tachzusamm]

What are my limits when it comes to polygons? How does that work? I know I've asked this before, but in different context. Still I am unclear as to what range i should be shooting for. Should i be paying attention to vert or poly numbers? How many is too many? Ya know for the average player.

We ask this ourselves each day. I wish there was an answer in general, but there isn't. Even Cyan cannot answer this.

Suggestion: Make estimations about the total numbers of vertices or faces you would get in your complete age. In other words, the sum of all your objects.

If you want to include a tree for example in your age, you can indeed model this very detailed with a lot of vertices and structure. If your plans are to include *many* trees, the trees should be made of much less vertices.
Same for doors, chairs, etc.

Just to give you a number: Eder Gira or Teledahn for example were made of about 200.000 vertices or faces in total. (If you look at vertices or faces does not really matter).
But this does not mean 200.000 is a limit - it's just a value for orientation.
If I remember it correctly, Aegura contains about 1.500.000 vertices. This works because there's another technique: VisRegions.
Using VisRegions, you can drastically increase the amount of vertices, because objects outside such a (currently) visible region do not matter in the graphics rendering.

So, if you have made an object with about 20.000 vertices and your intention is to include about 100 other objects with the same amount, it's near the limits.
If your object has about 500 vertices and you intent to make 20 other objects, you can and should increase the detail.
Mainly just the overall count matters.

So it's the best way to think about how your whole age should look like and what should be included, then make the estimation about how many vertices an object can have.
But this is again just a recommendation; large objects should be made of more polygons than small ones.
Then, if you get a feeling your plans would exceed about 200.000 or 300.000 vertices, think about including VisRegions early.

[bnewton81]

Great info! What exactly is a Visregion? Does that refer only to what is visible to the player at any given time or is it an actual thing that must be added or enabled? I've asked this before to no avail.

[andylegate]

Yes, we use VisRegions (Visibility Regions) to have things render only when the player is in that area. They are actually what we call Soft Volumes. We can use Soft Volumes to control lighting, Sound and when things get rendered.

[Luna]

Great info! What exactly is a Visregion? Does that refer only to what is visible to the player at any given time or is it an actual thing that must be added or enabled? I've asked this before to no avail.

Well, a simple search in the wiki gave http://www.guildofwriters.com/wiki/Soft_Volumes you may want to skip all the technical talk at the beginning and go straight to the section on Visregions. For that you only need to know how to add a soft volume (Add-> PyPRP Soft Volumes)

[andylegate]

Or you can use my simple tutorial here for Blender and Vis regions:

http://www.guildofmaintainers.org/Forum ... =145&t=894