Blender Says Freedom

[Calam]

I haven't seen the new version of Blender, so the following comments are based on whatever version came before this one.

I am very quick at picking up software logic and GUIs, whether it's for CAD products or digital audio workstations or painter programs or what-have-you. I can usually open a piece of software and figure it out on my own. Granted, I need training to really be proficient at it, but I've yet to find a program that I open, try to make work, and simply cannot make sense of it without spending 3 hours watching video tutorials. Usually I unpack something and within a short period of time I know how to make things happen, even if they're simple things.

And then I met Blender.

When I first opened Blender, just looking at the GUI made me nauseous. I tried to make sense of it then quickly gave up because I had too much other software to learn at the time. That was a while ago-- I haven't seen the new interface-- but it was definitely one of the worst I'd ever seen, with the exception of the File Matrix. Good GUIs like Pro Tools, Photoshop, Corel, and 3DSMax have certain elements in common, one of the most important things being they don't dump everything in your face on the main screen. If you need a tool that isn't something you use at least every few minutes, it goes in a sub-menu that isn't difficult to locate, is in easy range of other similar tools, and has a dialog box for features related to that tool.

I'm not saying Blender doesn't have those things. I'm also not saying that professional software is perfect. But if a piece of software's interface layout instantly intimidates a user like myself before I've even clicked a single button, something is wrong.

This is a common problem with OS software or when you let engineers make a UI. As dialogs become more complex and toolbar after toolbar is layered into the GUI, developers become accustomed to the clutter and cease seeing it for its ugliness, much like having to smell your Indian co-worker's spiced curry brussel sprouts and broccoli lentil mix-- you just get used to it after a while. They then expect that users will also get used to it, and some of them do. But the rest walk into the room, make a funny face, go "phweew, who farted?" and leave, because who wants to smell that when they can just eat in the lunch room? Rajiv, if you're reading this, please, put that damn thing in an airtight container and toss it.

But I digress.

I will eventually have to learn to use Blender because I want to continue to do 3D modeling and I don't want to pay for a new program. I'm hoping that one day, Blender will be easier to for lay users to enter into. For now it just frightens me.

[Calena]

I don't think evil software companies are influencing my schooling that much >.>

*LOL* That made me laugh. And feel stupid, but in a good way . Good comeback.

I don't think commercial software companies are evil. They're people developing and marketing their products and hoping to make a profit. That's normal and fine by me. You must know that both hardware and software companies target schools to boost market share. Why do you think students get free software while the rest of us have to pay $$$$ for it? That's marketing.

As far as Blender vs other software for building in URU, right now the only real advantage that I'm aware of (and there's a whole lot I'm still not aware of) is wavesets in 3DS Max. Since I had no problem learning Blender's interface, spending serious money to be able to put wavesets in my ages isn't worth it to me. They're nice, I like them. I just don't think they add enough to the overall effect to be worth spending the money. Especially since I don't do this to earn a living, I do it for fun.

I hate to admit it, but I wonder if one of the reasons I found Blender simple to learn is because I've been doing this since the dark ages before these nifty point and click mouse thingies with pictures and icons existed .

[Charura]

Please correct me if I'm wrong here...In order to use the plug-ins provided by Cyan..you have to have 3dmax version 7? the plug-in will not work in subsequent versions?

[Chacal]

This is a common problem when you let engineers make a UI.

THIS.
I'm sorry for the purists, but for the casual user UI is as important as core functionality. For example, this is why I don't use Winamp. A weird UI is OK when your software is targeted at specialists. Even then, they tend to use hotkeys and macros to overcome the shortcomings of the UI, which is what happens with Blender.

Designing a good UI requires having competent people doing it. This is where some OS projects fall behind mainstream apps, for which software companies spend millions on useability.

[bnewton81]

Totally agree that 2.49 was an enigma wrapped in a WTF?. But the new UI is wonderful. So much easier to use. I find myself actually using the buttons provided. The reason (in my untrained opinion) that the UI's in most OS programs is pare shaped is because that is the simple part to fix. I like to work from hardest to easiest myself. I think this is what happens in programing OS too. If you showed the new version of blender to your teachers, they would be able to use it.

I think also that a lot of ppl play with the idea of learning 3d and while doing so they download the free software to see what its all about. Then BAM! They see Blender's UI. Even a well put together UI for a complex 3d program is going to be completely foreign to the first timer. So they get a bad taste in their mouth for blender from the start.

[Calam]

I think also that a lot of ppl play with the idea of learning 3d and while doing so they download the free software to see what its all about. Then BAM! They see Blender's UI. Even a well put together UI for a complex 3d program is going to be completely foreign to the first timer. So they get a bad taste in their mouth for blender from the start.

But those are the people who, unless they take a class, aren't ever going to seriously use a 3D modeling tool anyway. What concerns me is when veteran software users groan in agony at the thought of learning Blender, as I am right now.

My personal rule of thumb for a good GUI is that even for software that is large and very powerful, like Photoshop or Cubase-- and let me tell ya, learning Cubase ain't a party-- an intelligent user ought to be able to watch no more than 30 minutes of tutorials before being able to use the software for its most basic intended purpose, even if it's their first time. Since I'm using DAWs as an example because I'm familiar with them, Pro Tools is another good one. Pro Tools is the number 1 program used by professional recording studios, and yet it's most basic functions are simple enough to use that a novice, first-time operator can watch a few tutorials and start recording tracks within thirty minutes.

Thirty minutes.

It took me thirty minutes to get a handle on how to navigate Blender's 3D plane. And I'm not stupid, I promise.

So again, I do plan on trying out the new version of Blender to see if my fears have been alleviated. But I have low expectations.

[dendwaler]

Calam,
I can fully understand what you are feeling with Blender when you are new to it.
I really felt the same about it when i started.
It took me two years to feel comfortable with it .
Now, after two years i can explain what is wrong with the old interface.
I could not before, because to say what is wrong, you first have to understand how it works.
Once you understand it, the workflow is fast and easy.
All the shortcuts that you hated to learn makes it so incredidable fast.
Now, Finally all gaps in knowledgement of the application are falling together.
Its unbelievable that after two years of heavy use, I still dayly find new possibilities.
....and I am certain, that i have still not used half of that what is in it.
... as you, i am not Dumb either.
For me the fact that all Tutorials are in the English Language is the biggest handicap, strange because of its Dutch roots.

Now we have a new Blender.
I will start to use it the day that PyPRP2 will be launched.

Ofcoarse I have already tried it.
..And again I feel like a noob.
Everything is newly arranged.
I could not even change the screen lay-out to make a personal init file , more tailored to age building.

But after a short time I noticed that everything is very more logical arranged.
I don't have to swap anty longer between button windows for every little change i make.
When you go top down thru the list of parameters its done.

Gladly all the old shortcuts are still there, because I already know them, and its faster then clicking buttons.

Contradictius in the new interface I have to search them, because I am used to the old lay-out.

But for sure, if you are a newbee then there is no doubt that this one is much easyer to learn then the old interface.

And don't forget to go through the new video tutorials from goud old Neil Hersig.
http://gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html

They will certainly help you, as no other tut can.

[bnewton81]

My favorite feature in the new blender is the live updating. When you are pushing buttons you actually see the changes it is making to the model. This is super helpful for learning what everything does. I would go as far as to say that if you had some experience in 3d, you could pic up the basics of the new blender in under an hour of use. And that is without any tutorials. Yep, it's that much better.

And Blender really has a wonderfully fast work flow. Think about it. Once you start seriously using any program you learn the hot keys to make it faster and bypass the GUI anyway. I hate using the mouse! Anytime I have to resort to mouse I feel I have failed. you know what i mean. I feel the same way that most 3d max users feel about blender, but about 3d max. Like holy hell 3d max is different than blender. It feels like it will take forever to learn it. Why the hell would I want a non-editable poly? Seems like non-sensical options to me. But I have to believe that 3d max is popular for more than just its marketing.

[Sirius]

Let's give my two cents...

Yes, Blender is complicated, it took me as much time as Calam to understand how to rotate the 3D view !

And Blender really has a wonderfully fast work flow. Think about it. Once you start seriously using any program you learn the hot keys to make it faster and bypass the GUI anyway. I hate using the mouse! Anytime I have to resort to mouse I feel I have failed. you know what i mean.

Exactly. In Blender, you just press two keys to switch mode. Really fast. I'm far from being a good 3D modeler, but that's awesome how fast you can model an object. Usually you notice it when your friends say to you "hey, don't go so fast, how did you do the last thing ?".

That's, to my mind, exactly the main problem when you start blender. You DON'T have any help icon ! I don't know a lot of 3D programs, but when I tried Zanoza, it seemed to me as you always have to click on an icon to grab the 3D view, re-click on another one to be able to grab an object, re-click on... That's useful when you want to learn it, you don't feel as lost as in Blender, but it always take a lot of time to change the tool you're using.

About Blender vs Max, the only thing I dislike is that PyPRP doesn't have as much features as Cyan's plugin. But why would I buy it only for few options you can add with XML editing, while I already have Blender ?

[Fuchida]

This is such a great topic.

Obviously it has, like many topics before strayed just a little from the main point, but also it is a celebration of the open source as such.

To give my comments on the topic "Blender GUI" let's remember that Blender has always told us on their pages (and I hope you read the main ones before you downloaded it, in today's phising internet it's important to do that) that Blender has (an unconventional, but after time a very intuitive Interface, with a steep learning curve).

I was used to CAD-Software like Autcad Mechanical or Solid Designer from CoCreate, which are all professional and expensive design programs, both making workflow hard with the way the drafting has to take place. Therefore not all professional programs equal a good interface.

It took me less time to learn Blender than some given examples, but the learning curve really depens on the individual. The new version is "inspired" by 3ds max, therefore makes it easier for those that come from that background to get a grasp.

Open Source, enables people like us, to focus less on financiel expanse and more on creativity, hobby and the wonderful feeling you get, when you accomplish something that has personal value. Is a couple of hours (again this amount may vary from individual to individual) of learning time not far less sacrifice, than to pay $5800 for a program, that to be honest makes this amount only shorter by maybe 50% (may vary again). Plus by using OS, you also give somebody the chance to receive just that nice feeling about something they accomplished.

So I definitly support OS, so to speak. Blender says Freedom. Freedom to express Art and Creativity in Ages.

No Offence. I agree on all points and levels,