Rules for Age Content

[Pryftan]

I think we're all pretty much agreed Cyan will want to analyze our Ages to ensure we haven't broken any rules. I think the point of disagreement is on when they will analyze our work.. if they'll really take the time to look at concept art and idea threads, or will want to just look it over when we submit it to them to put on their server, as we'll have to do anyway. The latter will almost certainly be the preferred option for Cyan.. there's no guarantee anything in the concept stage will ever be completed, whereas analyzing it in the complete form lets them know everything about what we want to put on their servers. So we have a set of rules to design by, and then we are subject to any additional constraints Cyan may have in mind when looking at the completed Age.

[BAD]

I am not bickering, I am trying to help you. You are trying to make it seem like I am somehow stupid or babbling and I don't appreciate that at all.

You do things however YOU want. I don't care anymore. Forget everything I say, you are obviously the expert.

Thanks for the support Paradox.

[Pryftan]

I'm sorry that I made you feel that way, BAD, that wasn't my intention. I also got into a very long argument earlier in this topic with belford, and these side arguments with people who feel like it's a waste of time to list these rules have made it rather difficult to list any rules. You are right when you say we should be aware that a list of rules doesn't mean Cyan won't have more things to say about an Age ultimately, and I appreciate your taking the time to say so, I just argued with the part about the rules being unnecessary because I didn't want you to discourage anyone from continuing work on them. In the process I've made this thread bursting under the weight of a lot of superfluous material instead of really helping much.

So trying to get things back on track.. if anybody has anything else to add to the list presented at the top of this ridiculously long thread, please add your thoughts! Thank you =)

[BAD]

That's great that you realize that you were coming across that way, but your still ignoring my points. at this point that's fine.

Just to be clear, I never stated that we shouldn't have a set of rules, as a matter of fact I fully support a set of rules for the Guild. What you are doing is transferring your frustration from one argument to the present one.

Just to clarify, my points are these and then you can go on ignoring me.

1) There should be a rule that allows creators to use content and ideas that they have received approval for from Cyan directly and independantly.

2) You should be wary of making rules based on what you "think" Cyan will say. You don't know how they will react, you should contact Cyan before making any rules based on what content is acceptable (aside from the obvious).

3) You should be aware of copyright laws, and how Cyan has dealt with IP issues in the past, before continuing to write these rules. Ask some people with experience.

That is all I am asking. I don't think it is to difficult.

[Pryftan]

1) I can't ever see any reason we would tell someone they couldnt do something if they had explicit approval from Cyan. And I'm wary of saying you NEED it before you can proceed, because that's a precedent that will very much limit our work in the areas of "discovery". I will, however, add that Cyan reserves the right to reject your Age upon it's completion even if it works according to our rules.

2) That's why, as I said in the first post, we will try to check these rules with Cyan before saying they are complete and official. That will bring it from speculation to actually representing Cyan's views.

3) A lot of people with experience with this consulted on the rules in previous pages, and I've read over most of what Cyan and greydragon have said in the past. Just because I disagree on how they will want us to behave doesn't mean I'm ignorant of copyright laws or how Cyan behaves concerning their copyrights.

And you're probably right about my transferring frustration from one argument to the next. It just seems like it's been much more of a battle than it should have been to put together something that seems perfectly reasonable and useful.

[BAD]

Anything worth doing will be difficult.

[Pryftan]

As it should be. But those doing it reserve the right to be frustrated, though they ought to apologize after snapping due to their frustration =)

[BAD]

I think it is important that those who may have trouble expressing themselves and causing others frustration should apologize as well.

[Pryftan]

^_^ Glad I didn't unwittingly cement myself in your mind as a jerk.

Anyway, now that things are back to normal, if anybody else has anything to add to the list, now would be a great time to speak up

[bluewyvern]

Here's the problem as I see it:

1. There are obviously going to be some rules as to what we can and can't do, from Cyan. As a Guild we may impose our own additional guidelines.

2. We don't know what Cyan will allow us to do. They haven't told us any rules.

3. We want to know now so we can get started on our work with the confidence that it won't be shot down later. Since we have no rules to refer to, we propose to put ourselves in Cyan's place, invent a list of rules, show it to them, and ask "Are these the rules?"

If nothing else, it might turn Cyan's attention to creating rules for us a little sooner and maybe communicating some expectations to us. I doubt that they would fully accept the rules in the form we give them, though, and I'm not sure how much help they will be in amending them, either. They will probably want to write the rules fully themselves, and either already have ideas for what those will be, or don't have the time and manpower to devote to setting them out right now, or both. The response I would expect is "Keep brainstorming, Guild, and we'll give you the rules when the time comes." Maybe they'll hurry a little more if they know we are asking about it. It's possible we'll get a better answer...at the very least, I don't think it could do any harm.

So why not just go ahead and propose some rules, and see what happens? I wouldn't a) get too worked up over it, or b) expect earth-shattering results, but it's probably not a bad idea.

As far as reviewing submissions -- yes, Cyan is clearly going to review any content before it gets put into the game. The question is whether they will additionally review any concepts, so that they can warn us before we sink to much energy into a project that has no chance of being approved. I hope the answer will be yes, because it will help us out a lot, but it will depend on how much energy they can devote to project review.

The concept review stage will be in addition to the final review and the written rules, however, which I'm sure are both obligatory.

Submitting a proposed rule list at this point will really only be a nudge to get Cyan to tell us what the real rules are.