Updated Uru graphics

[The stranger]

Yes, these silent times are really annoying. Usually, with Cyan Worlds, quite=dead, but with the recent success of iPhone Myst, there are some chances for a release. I'm still waiting.

oh, and it's good to kno we can change everything in openUru .

[The stranger]

Taken from Jonnees age discussion, I would like to continue the graphics discussion here. Matthonrb began talking about the interesting subject which actually belongs to this thread, so I continue it here:

You have a good way of thinking matthornb . I think, too, that interface and, more importantly, graphics updates are needed.

I'm completely new to this, so this question may be really dumb, but I have to ask: how hard will it be to update Uru to the newst plasma version (that was plasma 3 from CO:HI, right?)? Will it be a convertion with some work, or will we have to build to whole game from the beginning?

[Aloys]

We don't have the code for that particular version of Plasma, it's not part of Uru so it won't be included in the eventual code that goes open source. So: no we can't convert Uru to a version of Plasma that we don't have.
Beside, I haven't played Hex Isles myself, but by the screenshots I saw of it it appears Plasma didn't get any fundamental changes for that version; so I'm not too sure it would be interesting to do anyway.

As for updating the game's graphics; the amount of work would depend on what kind of 'updates' we are talking about. But for a 'serious' update (overall update of the textures/models) it would definitely be a ton of work. Months and months of work, with a team of dedicated (and skilled) people.
But to be honnest I don't find that Uru's visuals really need to be improved much.. Despite its age it still looks really great. Increasing the textures resolution and polygon counts would be an improvent, but it wouldn't be a radical change either.. There are really only really four things I could think of that would be interesting to do :
1) Add postprocessing effects. Mostly a subtle bloom. (emphasis on the 'subtle' part)
2) Add normal maps. Technically normal mapping is already supported in Uru, but not really used. It would require to create all those textures form scratch and to update many (most?) materials. A ton of work, but it would be a nice addition.
3) Add a proper shadowing solution for the avatar and the few other objecs that use it. If there's one low point in Plasma it's this one in my opinion.
4) Better reflections shaders for the water. I like wavesets, but they're really difficult to use properly, and even then they only reflect par of their environemnt.. 'True' reflections for water (or other things) would be a great addition.. No more headaches.

The only thing I can think of that would be interesting to do would be an upgrade of the whole avatar animation system. But that'd be a really huge technical challenge.
Other things could be added like a cloth simulation system; or soft particles.. But IMHO nothing too vital.

Oh yeah also: Animated Linking Panels!!

[Paradox]

1) Add postprocessing effects. Mostly a subtle bloom. (emphasis on the 'subtle' part)
2) Add normal maps. Technically normal mapping is already supported in Uru, but not really used. It would require to create all those textures form scratch and to update many (most?) materials. A ton of work, but it would be a nice addition.
3) Add a proper shadowing solution for the avatar and the few other objecs that use it. If there's one low point in Plasma it's this one in my opinion.
4) Better reflections shaders for the water. I like wavesets, but they're really difficult to use properly, and even then they only reflect par of their environemnt.. 'True' reflections for water (or other things) would be a great addition.. No more headaches.

The only thing I can think of that would be interesting to do would be an upgrade of the whole avatar animation system. But that'd be a really huge technical challenge.
Other things could be added like a cloth simulation system; or soft particles.. But IMHO nothing too vital.

Oh yeah also: Animated Linking Panels!!

#1 - This will likely be a project for a few people in open-source Plasma. After seeing how it was done in HI, I'd prefer to do it "properly" in Uru based on light values greater than 1.0
#2 - Once we actually have enough information to implement these, we will likely find a number of ways to make them easier to use and more effective.
#3 - I don't have a solution in mind for this, but I definitely agree with you that the shadowing system has flaws.
#4 - This is already possible in the MOUL version of Plasma, and should make all types of reflective surfaces better... remember the K'veer floor?
#5 - There are a few ways to fake these using animated textures, but they can be done even in PotS with Bink layers and some Python.

[The stranger]

How about controls? can these be updated? I would love to just look around by moving the mouse instead of pressing the right mouse button, or move levers and such things by dregging them (BTW, it IS possible in Uru. Look at drizzle).

Motion blur for Uru could be great .

[Aloys]

I didn't count that as part of the graphics, but if there's only on thing I'd like to change in Uru it's the camera controls. Probably a topic for a whole different thread.

#1 - This will likely be a project for a few people in open-source Plasma. After seeing how it was done in HI, I'd prefer to do it "properly" in Uru based on light values greater than 1.0
#2 - Once we actually have enough information to implement these, we will likely find a number of ways to make them easier to use and more effective.
#3 - I don't have a solution in mind for this, but I definitely agree with you that the shadowing system has flaws.
#4 - This is already possible in the MOUL version of Plasma, and should make all types of reflective surfaces better... remember the K'veer floor?
#5 - There are a few ways to fake these using animated textures, but they can be done even in PotS with Bink layers and some Python.

Good news overall.
#4 - Reflective surfaces on the Kveer floor? Well I guess now is the time to confess that I was never able to access K'veer in MOUL.. (darn Ahnonay puzzle..) good news though. I was always hirked in Gira by the lonely bone in the middle of the lake that isn't reflected in the water..
#5 - Binks layers; I know they can be done, it's just that I stil haven't totally warped my head around it. Probably more a matter of updating our tools than the actuall engine here...

[The stranger]

No, no, feel free to discuss the camera here.

[Aloys]

Essentially I'd change two things:
- In first person I'd get rid of the 'press right click to move the camera' system. Or at the very least I'd add an option in the setting to do it. I'm more of a fan of the 'press right click to stop moving the camera and set free the cursor' solution.
- Change the 3rd person camera from the current 'pan & scan' system to a regular 'orbit around head system', that 99% of the other games out there use.. They use it for a good reason. The current system is just too restrictive. You just can't look around freely in 3rd person, can't even turn your head left or right, you either have to actually turn the whole avatar or to switch to 1st person. Which is just terminally annoying to me.

[ddb174]

Take a look at converted Direbo for examples of looping, animated linking books in Pots! And the linking book to Direbo in Relto(which you get after you first link there) shows such a panel inside of a book Gui itself.

[tachzusamm]

- Change the 3rd person camera from the current 'pan & scan' system to a regular 'orbit around head system', that 99% of the other games out there use.. They use it for a good reason. The current system is just too restrictive. You just can't look around freely in 3rd person, can't even turn your head left or right, you either have to actually turn the whole avatar or to switch to 1st person. Which is just terminally annoying to me.

I second that. It annoyes me as well, and I always wished there was a possibility to turn the camera freely.
But such a change would require another behaviour to be changes as well: The way the avatar moves / walks.
For example, in other games the avatar walks towards a point you clicked - then, while the avatar walks, to can turn the camera around the avatar.
As we know, in URU the avatar only walks into the direction we look to - so this would require huge changes to the engine.
I doubt this would be possible, although I would really like it.